Quoted from 78

Shame about the old basins. Maybe they should rebuild the castle instead.

Now that sounds interesting!

Quoted from Greenham Common

Now that sounds interesting!

well, despite the fact that the 'castle' appears on the Newbury coat of arms & that some sources say it was demolished to make way for the canal basins, there are some accounts which say Newbury never had a castle. Hamstead Marshall & Donnington the nearest.

Blackdog?

Quoted from Greenham Common

And once the 'precedence' is set in Victoria Park, next stop, the little used Goldwell & Northcroft parks.

Northcroft has already had an ugly building put in it - the Leisure Centre.  While they were building it they put in a temporary car park on Goldwell - which is still there decades later!

Recently there were suggestions that Speenhamland School should be relocated to Northcroft - so they can sell off the school's two sites for development.

And there is also whatever is needed to replace the Waterside's canoeing function.  

They have recently moved the pedestrian route from the Monkey Bridge to Northcroft Lane to the east - freeing up some space at the end of the Leisure Centre.  Anyone else suspect there are ideas about development there?

I use all three parks - and will regret the loss of any part of any of them to development.  There is no need to build on our green spaces - they are protected by planning laws; WBC should recognize that there is a reason for these laws and stop eyeing them up as cheap building plots rather than working out how to get round the law in order to start building.

Quoted from 78

I'd prefer a less avante garde building design for the pavillion, but what can one expect from a modern architect?

What you ask them to deliver. Of course if you have a "closed shop" so the architect is already chosen they'll deliver any crap they want as has been proved already by this architect!

Quoted from Nobby

What you ask them to deliver. Of course if you have a "closed shop" so the architect is already chosen they'll deliver any crap they want as has been proved already by this architect!

Somone in WBC, and this must be at the top, has briefed the architect with what is required in the building in terms of the number of amenity areas, public spaces, storerooms and offices. This will determine the overall footprint. The number of floors required will be included as an end result for the requirement for the space to contain that which has been specified.
So, we come to the subjective question as to whether the architect has made appropriate use of the space given and has produced a good tight design. Answers on a postcard please.
The next subjective question is 'does it look right?', Answers on the other side of the postcard.

But, we come to the question which is most important, was the brief correct in the first place forcing the architect to design a major building rather than a park related building.

I'm afraid that the senior members of WBC have missed the whole point of what is needed for our recreational requirements in a protected environment like Victoria park, spurred on by a landlord who wants his buildings back offering incentives so to do. The Greenham Trust like to be seen as the good guys around town but they are, despite their altruistic posturing, a commercial concern. We and WBC should bear that in mind. There used to be a saying "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts".
The altruistic appealing to the egoistic perhaps.

Quoted from brian

The Greenham Trust like to be seen as the good guys around town but they are, despite their altruistic posturing, a commercial concern.

New Greenham Trust is not a commercial concern in fact it is not New Greenham Trust (to my surprise) but Greenham Common Community Trust. It is a registered charity set up by WBC (or NRDC) when they bought back the common.  

Their trading activities are to raise money to a) maintain their assets and b) spend on charitable causes.

In recent years their income has risen and their spending fallen - I can see why they are looking for a nice big project to spend some of their money on.  This year they have already bought two buildings in Newbury, the old RAFA hall (for use as a community arts etc space) and the dreadful ex-Vodafone building in the Broadway (sadly not to demolish it but to use as open plan offices for local charities - most of whom don't actually want to share open plan offices).

Quoted from 78

well, despite the fact that the 'castle' appears on the Newbury coat of arms & that some sources say it was demolished to make way for the canal basins, there are some accounts which say Newbury never had a castle. Hamstead Marshall & Donnington the nearest.

Blackdog?

You called!

There have been attempts to find the castle in the wharf - to no avail.  The most recent was an archaeological dig on the site of the library.  As nothing has ever been found, and all early references to it stem from a single souce (an old poem about William the Marshall as a child) it seems reasonable to plump for it being at Hamstead Marshall (William the Marshall's father's manor hence its name) where there is evidence of multiple Norman castles.  The poem is about a siege of Newbury Castle in the civil war between Stephen and Matilda (1150ish - Brother Cadfael's time). A besieging force of that time would be quite likely to put up a castle (wooden palisade on top of a mound and ditch - motte & bailey) alongside the one they are attacking - a likely explanation of the multiple mounds at Hamstead Marshall.

Tony Higgott wrote an article in the Field Club journal putting this case.

However, there are also tales of stone from the castle being used as late as the C18th.  I suspect these may refer to Donnington Castle.  But I guess the case is not entirely closed, there could have been a motte and bailey castle on the wharf, perhaps even back behind the museum. Market places were commonly sited at the castle gate, and there was an old in called the Castle of the east side of the Market Place - could this have started at the castle gate?  I doubt we will ever know for certain as there are unlikely to be any traces left - after all the area has been developed multiple times since the C12th including digging the canal basins.

Quoted from blackdog

New Greenham Trust is not a commercial concern in fact it is not New Greenham Trust (to my surprise) but Greenham Common Community Trust. It is a registered charity set up by WBC (or NRDC) when they bought back the common.  

Their trading activities are to raise money to a) maintain their assets and b) spend on charitable causes.

In recent years their income has risen and their spending fallen - I can see why they are looking for a nice big project to spend some of their money on.  This year they have already bought two buildings in Newbury, the old RAFA hall (for use as a community arts etc space) and the dreadful ex-Vodafone building in the Broadway (sadly not to demolish it but to use as open plan offices for local charities - most of whom don't actually want to share open plan offices).

I hear what you are saying here but what's in a name. It may have a charity status and it may be non profit making but it runs like a commercial business, with, if you like, the community as shareholders reaping a dividend in respect of the 'good works'.

That is excellent, sharing the wealth from the income from commercial land that belongs to the community anyway, with the community. Where it sort of goes pear shaped is that they, by virtue of the fact that they have some loose income, put bias or pressure perhaps on the recipients to do their will.

You mention the Vodafone unit in the broadway that they have purchased, that seems to me to be a very suitable place for EDGE that are expecting space in the Pavilion especially if Greenham kit it out properly according to the wishes of the end user rather than how they think it ought to be.

Quoted from brian

You mention the Vodafone unit in the broadway that they have purchased, that seems to me to be a very suitable place for EDGE that are expecting space in the Pavilion especially if Greenham kit it out properly according to the wishes of the end user rather than how they think it ought to be.

Even better - demolish the monstrosity and build an arts centre in keeping with its surrounds.  Bring some life back into the Broadway, get away from this daft idea of concentrating all the cultural activities in one area and spread the nightlife around more.  The Edge can set up shop in the Waterside (if they are not already there).

Quoted from blackdog

You called!

There have been attempts to find the castle in the wharf - to no avail.  The most recent was an archaeological dig on the site of the library.  As nothing has ever been found, and all early references to it stem from a single souce (an old poem about William the Marshall as a child) it seems reasonable to plump for it being at Hamstead Marshall (William the Marshall's father's manor hence its name) where there is evidence of multiple Norman castles.  The poem is about a siege of Newbury Castle in the civil war between Stephen and Matilda (1150ish - Brother Cadfael's time). A besieging force of that time would be quite likely to put up a castle (wooden palisade on top of a mound and ditch - motte & bailey) alongside the one they are attacking - a likely explanation of the multiple mounds at Hamstead Marshall.

Tony Higgott wrote an article in the Field Club journal putting this case.

However, there are also tales of stone from the castle being used as late as the C18th.  I suspect these may refer to Donnington Castle.  But I guess the case is not entirely closed, there could have been a motte and bailey castle on the wharf, perhaps even back behind the museum. Market places were commonly sited at the castle gate, and there was an old in called the Castle of the east side of the Market Place - could this have started at the castle gate?  I doubt we will ever know for certain as there are unlikely to be any traces left - after all the area has been developed multiple times since the C12th including digging the canal basins.

thanks very much!!