Looks like there's some good alternative proposals coming through. Well done!
I know it doesn't take much to out-think WBC, but these ideas will all be useful when the Local Government Ombudsman rules on the illegal process of not tendering for the design of a £6m public building (contravening the Procurement of Public Contracts Regulations 2006 since you ask).
BTW Some worried muttering going on in Tory circles about this. Some donors are refusing to donate to the General Election unless the pavilion is killed off. And there was me thinking Cartergrad was going to last 1000 years.
The broadway has always felt annexed to the main shopping area.
Good point. 15 businesses have folded there in the last 18 months, and yet there have been some brilliant retail ideas tried out there. New cobbling won't bring back 300 Vodafone workers, make Waitrose go away, or reduce Newbury's rents.
The REAL issue is to find a way to route people back into the town centre without going back the same way. I propose a tuk tuk to ferry shoppers back up to Dead Square (formerly La Piazza Milanese), so they're near most of the car parks.
Perhaps, if that were the case. But in reality it's usually just an excuse to moan again about WBC spending £2bn (the price goes up each time) on the market place.
I have seen no evidence of exaggerating the cost. As far as we are concerned, the Market Place cost around £800,000.00 to surface (which wasn't long at all after the previous expensive re-surface.
I dont think the market place money was well spent either, but I'm not going to keep moaning about it after the event as much as I may be annoyed by wasteful spending.
I don't know; your objection to people bring this point up is often made with equal frequency!
Everyone's had a good complain about it on here, I wonder how many actually wrote to the council about it, or pressed them on the decisions made during the refurbishment process. Of the serial moaners on here, I bet that the vast majority have done nothing about contacting the council over their perceived failings in everything they do. Far easier to complain on a forum that requires no effort from them other than a few minutes spent at a keyboard.
And that is everyone's prerogative, so what? And we will continue to moan, if it suits us and we are permitted.
I believe that the users of this forum were dismissed as "serial moaners" by some at the unveiling of the pavilion plans in the library. As wrong as that perception may be, it's not hard to see where that idea comes from is it?
No and they dismiss the impact of forums like this at their peril. From my own experience, I more often hear disgruntlement from people, dissatisfied as described often on this and other forums, than I do praise.
At the end of the day this is just a forum. Take it or leave it. There is no obligation on any one here, other than to behave.
I will say though, that I am convinced that some people's posts are observed by those in authority. I have seen for myself a number of things get 'corrected' that have only recently been complained about on this and other forums.
On topic. I think it is quite clear that this pavilion project is not seen in good light by the majority that have expressed an opinion. Whether on here or else where.
So, Brian, from an NRA point of view, it's got to be good for the retailers in that end of town, surely? And if it costs a similar amount to make sure that the paved area matches Northbrook St so that, to the shopper, the whole area has a continuity, that's worth it, in my opinion at least. The broadway has always felt annexed to the main shopping area.
From a personal point of view, I think that it was/is a shocking waste of money and will ultimately see serious damage caused to Clock House by a lorry or bus that has difficulty negotiating the new mini roundabout. I also can't see that the new piazza will be particularly beneficial to the retail trade. Tenants for the old Vodafone offices surrounding the Broadway would improve the situation considerably.
From an NRA perspective, I had to go along with what the retailers requested, although, they have experienced considerable inconvenience whilst the work has been carried out. The Broadway will benefit considerably when the new East Street opens allowing the Debenhams shoppers to spill out into the Northern end of Northbrook Street.
I have seen no evidence of exaggerating the cost. As far as we are concerned, the Market Place cost around £800,000.00 to surface (which wasn't long at all after the previous expensive re-surface.
Before the forum re-jigg it would often be said to have cost £800,000, then someone else would say it was £1m, then £1.2m. The figure moved around considerably. Often being quoted as "nearly £1m!", which if we're being sensible and not sensationalist £800,000 is not nearly £1m. But the word "million" makes better headlines, and makes the cost seem worse than using a lower, more realistic figure.
And that is everyone's prerogative, so what? And we will continue to moan, if it suits us and we are permitted.
What's the point though? Just moaning about something over and over again on a forum? Like I said in my previous post, I'm sure those that moan the most on here have done nothing else about the situation. Certainly never contacted the council, or found another way (that would require some effort) of voicing their displeasure. How boring just to moan away on an internet forum about the same old things, just because you can.
Before the forum re-jigg it would often be said to have cost £800,000, then someone else would say it was £1m, then £1.2m. The figure moved around considerably. Often being quoted as "nearly £1m!", which if we're being sensible and not sensationalist £800,000 is not nearly £1m. But the word "million" makes better headlines, and makes the cost seem worse than using a lower, more realistic figure.
Wasn't it £800,000 taxpayers money & 400,000 section 106?
Before the forum re-jigg it would often be said to have cost £800,000, then someone else would say it was £1m, then £1.2m. The figure moved around considerably. Often being quoted as "nearly £1m!", which if we're being sensible and not sensationalist £800,000 is not nearly £1m. But the word "million" makes better headlines, and makes the cost seem worse than using a lower, more realistic figure.
It would depend on what was being discussed. My take on it is that the Market Place cost £800,000.00, but other areas added to the cost to take it way beyond the £1,000,000.00 mark. If we are talking exclusively the Market Place, then we would be talking about a smaller amount. If it is about the cost of resurfacing the pedestrianised area, than we are talking about a much larger amount. One also might include the cost of the previous resurfacing that was still quite new when it was torn up.
What's the point though? Just moaning about something over and over again on a forum? Like I said in my previous post, I'm sure those that moan the most on here have done nothing else about the situation. Certainly never contacted the council, or found another way (that would require some effort) of voicing their displeasure. How boring just to moan away on an internet forum about the same old things, just because you can.
I am sure that there are a number of people on here that do put their keyboard, or pen, where their mouth is and I think you are simply making an assumption that they don't.
My view is that you seem sensitive to some of the criticisms on here, which suggests to me that you are not total bipartisan in all matters discussed anyway.
Forums like this one, at least give a voice to some that would otherwise remain reticent and I only see that as a good thing. I am sure that forums like these do make a difference, even if it is not as great as other methods.
In my view, councillors and other members of the local councils should engage on forums like theses. Although I'm sure some do in a covert way, but their ignorance of forums like these, I think, show them in a poor light, more than anything else.
Why do we not see more councillors 'standing up' to the forum 'serial moaners'? It would be a good thing to help dispel some myths and perhaps better explain some of the things that go on in Newbury.
In my view, councillors and other members of the local councils should engage on forums like theses.
One town councillor used to be a regular contributor to these forums - but he stopped as soon as he left the council. I used to get a bit fed up with the party political nature of many of his postings but good on him for sticking his head above the parapet. Come back Wolfie - most is forgiven!
Meanwhile, this thread was about the pavilion for Victoria Park. I am sure WBC will be happy to see it disappear into a wave of gripes about something that has happened and they have all but forgotten (the Market Place) rather than build the case again this riduculous building in the park.
If you want to moan about the Market Place or Broadway why not start threads on those topics.
If you want to moan about the Market Place or Broadway why not start threads on those topics.
I don't want to moan about the Market Place, I replied to other peoples posts, who themselves had deviated. I will say, however, that failed project can serve as an epitaph to apparent poor 'market' research.
As I have stated before, I think there has been sufficient negative public feed-back to suggest that this is a bad idea. It is rare to read or hear any positive feedback on this. Last weeks NWN was mainly negative for instance.
As I have stated before, I think there has been sufficient negative public feed-back to suggest that this is a bad idea. It is rare to read or hear any positive feedback on this. Last weeks NWN was mainly negative for instance.
Most responses on local forums, be they on the Internet or the local rag's letter's page are negative. People will not go out of their way to say well done, you are doing your job.
And of course almost everyone in the Dog and Duck would have a bag over their head, so you couldn't actually tell who they were!Most responses on local forums, be they on the Internet or the local rag's letter's page are negative. People will not go out of their way to say well done, you are doing your job.
Nice one! Suspect the pubs could come up with a line of branded bags....
And of course almost everyone in the Dog and Duck would have a bag over their head, so you couldn't actually tell who they were!Most responses on local forums, be they on the Internet or the local rag's letter's page are negative. People will not go out of their way to say well done, you are doing your job.
But this does happen when the council get things 'right', like with the cinema for instance. At the end of the day, this pavilion has met with a large amount of negativity and has little support amongst those who express an opinion. If the council insist on moving this forward, I anticipate we will have not heard the last of the 'no' camp.
Most responses on local forums, be they on the Internet or the local rag's letter's page are negative. People will not go out of their way to say well done, you are doing your job.
You would want to believe that the general populace who read the NWN or 'local rag' as you term it would keep reading week after week the letters from people who write in with adverse comments about the pavilion and that they would be inclined to pick up a pen and dash off a support letter. However, is there perhaps the chance that, apart from yourself of course, there actually aren't many supporters.
It will be interesting to get the results from the anonymous forms filled in at the exhibition. They can be sorted into three piles.
1. Yes that's fine, I like it, go ahead. 2. It's OK but I have some reservations 3. No thank you, I do not want such a large building in the park
There may need to be some further sorting of pile 2 but my suspicion is that pile 3 will be the largest by a long stretch.
Since the "not for the Golden Oldie" comment by a local councillor and I bet he now wishes he had kept that observation to himself, I'm having some difficulty attempting to determine what unique youth facilities are being provided. OK, the Youth services and cyber cafe, whatever that implies, but also offices and meeting rooms for Edge. I understand the severe problems that we have with drug and other abuses and if it turns around one young person then perhaps there will be some value but I have to wonder if this is the right place for it. I sort of get the feeling that the design is a big buildlng and 'now what can we fill it with'. Are there grant implications from central government perhaps for this sort of counselling which might make the ongoing costs more acceptable.
I know it doesn't take much to out-think WBC, but these ideas will all be useful when the Local Government Ombudsman rules on the illegal process of not tendering for the design of a £6m public building (contravening the Procurement of Public Contracts Regulations 2006 since you ask).
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