Police in Newbury have been forced to close Park Way Bridge. Sheer volume of traffic, possibly caused by the additional vehicles heading for the Racecourse, have left some vehicles trapped in the Wharf for up to an hour.

Problems in this area have been increasing since Market Street was opened to two way traffic on November 12th.

Click on the image for an enlarged view

Did someone ask why I prefer Basingstoke?

The bridge has since been re-opened and the situation has quickly returned to gridlock.

Aparently the police attended at about 15:20 and deemed it  to be down to normal friday rush hour traffic.

I bet some of this traffic needn't be using this route. If they realised you could get to the town centre in other ways instead of being pushed into this one area cars would be more evenly distributed.

Quoted from 133

I bet some of this traffic needn't be using this route. If they realised you could get to the town centre in other ways instead of being pushed into this one area cars would be more evenly distributed.

Poor signage perhaps?

Quoted from BrianB

Poor signage perhaps?

Apparently it is perfect as it is. I did notice this morning there's even more more signage from the Robin Hood roundabout to let people know the only parking in the town centre is accessed via London Road.

Just wait until the Park Way precinct/mall/shopping centre opens !!!

Quoted from LocalRes

Just wait until the Park Way precinct/mall/shopping centre opens !!!

Yep bridge is to be closed to ordinary traffic. It will be 2 way traffic light controlled for buses, taxis and post vans only.

This will bring true pedestrianisation to Northbrook Street.

Quoted from BrianB

Yep bridge is to be closed to ordinary traffic. It will be 2 way traffic light controlled for buses, taxis and post vans only.

This will bring true pedestrianisation to Northbrook Street.

Does that mean drivers wanting the South end of the town centre, who follow the town centre/car park signs or their satnavs (from the Robin Hood), will have to turn round or park in an inconvenient place or just get lost?

Quoted from 133

I bet some of this traffic needn't be using this route. If they realised you could get to the town centre in other ways instead of being pushed into this one area cars would be more evenly distributed.

I'm willing to bet they do realise, they just think they shouldn't be taking the longer route, everyone else should.

Quoted from user23.3

I'm willing to bet they do realise, they just think they shouldn't be taking the longer route, everyone else should.

I would bet a lot of people don't realise and I only bet on certainties. Shorter route through Park Way, is it?

Quoted from 133

I would bet a lot of people don't realise and I only bet on certainties. Shorter route through Park Way, is it?

Ever known a bookie take to a bet on a certainty?

Bear Lane one-way, a couple of minutes delay going round via St John's Rd.  Bear Lane two-way, motorists stuck on Wharf for an hour.

Proof that Bear Lans should be one way?

Quoted from user23.3

I'm willing to bet they do realise, they just think they shouldn't be taking the longer route, everyone else should.

I'm sure tey all pay road tax and council tax so why shouldn't they expect to use the roads in Newbury? It's an absolute joke. This town is being choked. I don't think it will get worse though when Parkway opens. I don't think that it could, and I don't think a big empty building will attract too much traffic.

Quoted from Strafin

I'm sure tey all pay road tax and council tax so why shouldn't they expect to use the roads in Newbury? It's an absolute joke. This town is being choked. I don't think it will get worse though when Parkway opens. I don't think that it could, and I don't think a big empty building will attract too much traffic.

What do you suggest is done then, build a three lane super highway across the river over Parkway just in case all 30,000 people in Newbury want to use it at once (after all, they've all paid their tax, why shouldn't they be allowed to use it when they want) for millions of quid or get people to use a bit of common sense and use other routes, for nothing.

The "I've paid my tax and I want to do what I want, when I want, never mind anyone else" is a selfish and costly one to society. I wonder how many of the people sitting in their cars cursing the traffic actually realised that they were part of the problem themselves?

Quoted from user23.3

What do you suggest is done then, build a three lane super highway across the river over Parkway just in case all 30,000 people in Newbury want to use it at once (after all, they've all paid their tax, why shouldn't they be allowed to use it when they want) for millions of quid or get people to use a bit of common sense and use other routes, for nothing.

What I suggest is that we go back to the way it was a few weeks ago - costing a couple of grand on some signs and a bit of paint on the road.  If they are not going to do this it would be best to permanently close Park Way bridge (as appears to be the plan, if the earlier poster is corrent). If so they should do it now, not wait for Parkway to be finished.  Having the Wharf, where many visitors/shoppers park, snarled up for hours each day is going to put yet more people off coming to Newbury - still, I suppose that will ensure there is plenty of parking for the hardy few who still decide to do their Christmas shopping in Newbury.

Quoted from user23.3

What do you suggest is done then, build a three lane super highway across the river over Parkway just in case all 30,000 people in Newbury want to use it at once (after all, they've all paid their tax, why shouldn't they be allowed to use it when they want) for millions of quid or get people to use a bit of common sense and use other routes, for nothing

What I suggest is that the Park Way bridge should be made two-way with traffic lights like the bridge by Griffin's.  This would mean that traffic coming out of the numerous car parks along the back by the library and heading northbound would no longer have to join the ring road at the Sainsbury's roundabout.  This is exactly what was done when buses were diverted along Park Way.

Quoted from James_Trinder

What I suggest is that the Park Way bridge should be made two-way with traffic lights like the bridge by Griffin's.  This would mean that traffic coming out of the numerous car parks along the back by the library and heading northbound would no longer have to join the ring road at the Sainsbury's roundabout.  This is exactly what was done when buses were diverted along Park Way.

I think it needs a bit more than this. WBC have known about this traffic problem and appear to have done nothing about it. The problems are mainly to do with entering and getting through the Sainsbury roundabout for all four of the entrances. The traffic going North backs up from halfway down the hill and also backs up Eastwards along St John's Road. Traffic Southbound is marginally better but even that backs up and sometimes that is caused by orphaned cars wanting to get through and into town both from Kings Road and the A339 right hand turn. There has also been a marked increase in cars wanting to turn right to go to Sainsbury's from the South not getting round and sitting out in the middle of the junction thus blocking the Nortbound middle lane and alsoto some extent, the traffic tring to go North from Kings Road.
I agree that the traffic coming into Bear Lane from the Wharf is badly backing up and this has been compounded by the two way traffic being reopened past the new cinema but once again, that would not be the case if the Sainsbury roundabout was running a bit clearer. At least traffic in St John's Road is better since the restoration of two way working and running down Bart St from the St John's roundabout to go North is a better option than trying to get onto the A339 at the Burger King roundabout.
I think that cars coming from Parkway do not realise the major bottleneck until they are already in it. Turning round in Parkway and going out into the London Rd has its own problems if drivers want to go South in that they have to trundle round the Robin Hood roundabout and end up in the blocked A339 Southbound traffic.
Traffic lights at the Wharf/Bear lane junction but timed with the A339 lights might be an option so that at least the emerging traffic has a chance. Traffic from Sainsbury's going East should not have to come out onto the A339 and should be sent off down Hambridge Road but that needs a new road.
When the Parkway car park opens that in itself will move the problem to the Robin Hood but it won't be long before the Wharf is turned into a different sort of parking area, barges not needing to exit onto the A339.
I wonder if the Parkway bridge had been built as a proper two way bridge, most of the problems of getting out of the wharf would not be there. Still, that would have been too far ahead for town planners to think.

Quoted from brian

I think it needs a bit more than this..

"Turning round in Parkway and going out into the London Rd has its own problems if drivers want to go South in that they have to trundle round the Robin Hood roundabout and end up in the blocked A339 Southbound traffic."

"I wonder if the Parkway bridge had been built as a proper two way bridge, most of the problems of getting out of the wharf would not be there."

You've answered your own question there. The problem is too many cars, reduce car use and traffic everywhere will be reduced.

The problem is some people have entrenched and selfish views about the use of their car thinking that they have the right to clog up Newbury's roads whenever they wish, then complain about it after they themselves have in part caused a traffic jam.

"

Quoted Text

You've answered your own question there. The problem is too many cars, reduce car use and traffic everywhere will be reduced.

The problem is some people have entrenched and selfish views about the use of their car thinking that they have the right to clog up Newbury's roads whenever they wish, then complain about it after they themselves have in part caused a traffic jam.

"

Great idea.  How do you propose we implement this?

Quoted from brian

I think it needs a bit more than this. WBC have known about this traffic problem and appear to have done nothing about it. The problems are mainly to do with entering and getting through the Sainsbury roundabout for all four of the entrances. ...

Sorry - but this is far too complicated an explanation of a simple problem - Wharf Road becomes a car park because cars attempting to exit on to Bear Lane cannot do so because the Bear Lane traffic from town towards Sainsbury's has priority at the mini-roundabout. Sure some way of increasing the flow on to the
Sainsbury's roundabout would help - mainly to get more Bear Lane traffic out of town, encouraging more to use this route - wouldn't do much for those stuck on the Wharf.  One solution would be lights at the Wharf Rd/Bear Lane junction - synchornised to allow traffic to flow from Wharf Rd and Bear Lane alternatively.

However, this seems a lot more complicated than closing Bear Lane eastbound from Market Place to Wharf Road - which would also allow a few half hour on road parking spaces for those wanting to nip into the market for 20mins.

As for the two way Park Way bridge, there were plenty calling for it at the time but, apparently, there was insufficient funding for it.

Quoted from blackdog

However, this seems a lot more complicated than closing Bear Lane eastbound from Market Place to Wharf Road - which would also allow a few half hour on road parking spaces for those wanting to nip into the market for 20mins.

To some extent yes but the problem is then transferred to St John's Rd which also becomes a car park as everything from the South end of town, all the Kennet shoppers, all the WBC employees everybody coming out of the cinema have to trundle down Bart St and either turn down Station Rd or carry on up to St John's roundabout. In each case, the 339 gets blocked.
Traffic lights at the Bear Lane junction.

Quoted from blackdog

However, this seems a lot more complicated than closing Bear Lane eastbound from Market Place to Wharf Road - which would also allow a few half hour on road parking spaces for those wanting to nip into the market for 20mins.

To some extent yes but the problem is then transferred to St John's Rd which also becomes a car park as everything from the South end of town, all the Kennet shoppers, all the WBC employees everybody coming out of the cinema have to trundle down Bart St and either turn down Station Rd or carry on up to St John's roundabout. In each case, the 339 gets blocked.
Traffic lights at the Bear Lane junction.

Quoted from user23.3

The problem is too many cars, reduce car use and traffic everywhere will be reduced.

The problem is some people have entrenched and selfish views about the use of their car thinking that they have the right to clog up Newbury's roads whenever they wish, then complain about it after they themselves have in part caused a traffic jam.

Damn it, I wish I had thought of that. Mind you, if you live a couple of minutes from the town centre it is a good solution.

I was going to save this until after Christmas, but you may as well know now.

One lane of the A339 northbound between Burger King and Sainsbury's Roundabouts will be closed for approx 6 weeks in the New Year for repairs to the gas main. This is the continuation of the work already started in Cheap Street, Kings Road West and Carnegie Road.

Quoted from BrianB

I was going to save this until after Christmas, but you may as well know now.

No, this is a good time, for example, firms always choose to make staff redundant just before Christmas. We are really going to enjoy this so we so do not want Market St one way.

My posting on another thread, has made me recollect the main reason why we have so much congestion in the Wharf. It was the closure of Wharf Street for pedestrianisation of the Market Place that caused the problem in the first place. Perhaps we should consider allowing traffic back through the Market Place. It can still be closed off for the odd special event.

Quoted from BrianB

My posting on another thread, has made me recollect the main reason why we have so much congestion in the Wharf. It was the closure of Wharf Street for pedestrianisation of the Market Place that caused the problem in the first place. Perhaps we should consider allowing traffic back through the Market Place. It can still be closed off for the odd special event.

It might work if they didn't allow left turns from the Market Place on to Bear Lane - which just adds to the eastbound traffic on Bear Lane and makes it worse for the poor sods stuck trying to get out from the Wharf via Wharf Rd.  Of course everyone could go out via Wharf St and transfer the jam from the Wharf to the Market Place (at least there are traffic lights providing some sort of control there).

Quoted from BrianB

My posting on another thread, has made me recollect the main reason why we have so much congestion in the Wharf. It was the closure of Wharf Street for pedestrianisation of the Market Place that caused the problem in the first place. Perhaps we should consider allowing traffic back through the Market Place. It can still be closed off for the odd special event.

Sorry, that's heresy, you can be burned at the stake for less than that. That would liven up the market place though, a WBC public burning.
Oh by the way User, it's a joke so you don't have to remind us of the Martyrs.

Quoted from user23.3

The problem is too many cars, reduce car use and traffic everywhere will be reduced.

Dream on.  Reduction of traffic is only achievable by a massive increase of convenient public transport (ain't going to happen) or the use of traffic controls etc to make driving a nightmare.  The latter seems to be WBC's approach - the trouble is it makes a mess of their aim to create a vibrant town centre - which is difficult without shoppers.

Quoted from jay

Great idea.  How do you propose we implement this?

There's plenty of things that can be done from congestion charging to treating it as anti-social behaviour and punishing selfish drivers accordingly.

Another option would be to give local residents cut price permits to use the car parks but only a specific times and raising the charges to cover the cost

Quoted from user23.3

There's plenty of things that can be done from congestion charging to treating it as anti-social behaviour and punishing selfish drivers accordingly.

Another option would be to give local residents cut price permits to use the car parks but only a specific times and raising the charges to cover the cost

Or we could just close a load of shops to dissuade people from wanting to drive to Newbury.  If you stop cars coming the shops will close anyway so we may as well save the owners a long period of struggle.

Quoted from blackdog

Or we could just close a load of shops to dissuade people from wanting to drive to Newbury.  If you stop cars coming the shops will close anyway so we may as well save the owners a long period of struggle.

What makes you think everyone who's using the bridge is a shopper? There's more to Newbury than shopping.

Quoted from user23.3

There's plenty of things that can be done from congestion charging to treating it as anti-social behaviour and punishing selfish drivers accordingly.

The council fail to provide an appropriate road infrastructure, then punish drivers.  I'm not sure that sounds reasonable.

Quoted from user23.3

Another option would be to give local residents cut price permits to use the car parks but only a specific times and raising the charges to cover the cost

I think it would be better to simply close the new bridge during the day.

Quoted from Greenham Common

The council fail to provide an appropriate road infrastructure, then punish drivers.  I'm not sure that sounds reasonable.

Sounds perfectly reasonable that anti-social behaviour should be punished.

I'm sure people who commit other types of anti-social behaviour also try to blame it on the council too though.

Quoted from user23.3

Sounds perfectly reasonable that anti-social behaviour should be punished.

In that case, I presume you will be doing your bit for the community by phoning the police the next time you see some poor sod get stuck in a queue.

Quoted from user23.3

Sounds perfectly reasonable that anti-social behaviour should be punished.

I'm sure people who commit other types of anti-social behaviour also try to blame it on the council too though.

The Home Office's version of Anti Social Behaviour


"This threatening behaviour causes alarm and distress for law-abiding citizens, and the Home Office is responsible for drafting laws to ensure that it is prevented and those who do it are punished.

We work closely with local crime and disorder reduction partnerships (CDRPs) - made up of police, local authorities and housing associations - to identify this kind of behaviour and stop it.

We track neighbourhood problems and perceptions of aggressive behaviour through the British Crime Survey, which asks people around the country about their encounters with graffiti, vandalism, litter, drunks, aggressive behaviour and drug dealing. (and car drivers according to User23.3?)

CDRPs keep records on anti-social behaviour in their areas, and let us know what tools (such as anti-social behaviour orders, or ASBOs) they've used to address it".

So I guess User23.3 is to be promoted to issuing ASBO's to all those motorists using the Park Way Bridge!

I suppose it would take up more of his time, so he would be less able to post unreasonable comments on this forum.  

Quoted from Greenham Common

In that case, I presume you will be doing your bit for the community by phoning the police the next time you see some poor sod get stuck in a queue.

The "poor old sod" is part of the queue, they have in part caused it by their own actions. Blaming the authorities for the consequences of his actions is no better than someone that commits a different type of anti-social act then blames the authorities for there being "nothing to do".

I would have more sympathy for the latter at the moment, as it seems if we are to believe another thread the old of Newbury are actively trying to block "something to do" being created for the young. But that's another topic altogether.

Quoted from user23.3

The "poor old sod" is part of the queue, they have in part caused it by their own actions. Blaming the authorities for the consequences of his actions is no better than someone that commits a different type of anti-social act then blames the authorities for there being "nothing to do".

Being stuck in a queue ain't classified as ASB.

Quoted from user23.3

I would have more sympathy for the latter at the moment, as it seems if we are to believe another thread the old of Newbury are actively trying to block "something to do" being created for the young. But that's another topic altogether.

As you said, this piece of deflection is for another thread.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Being stuck in a queue ain't classified as ASB.

Having a hand in blocking the roads by persistently refusing to change one's course of action (or indeed course of direction) is anti-social in my book.

People stuck in the queues can blame who they like. It's their car that's part of the queue and therefore part of the cause of the problem.

Quoted from user23.3

Having a hand in blocking the roads by persistently refusing to change one's course of action (or indeed course of direction) is anti-social in my book.

Being stuck in a queue ain't classified as ASB.

Quoted from user23.3

People stuck in the queues can blame who they like. It's their car that's part of the queue and therefore part of the cause of the problem.

Yes, a popular piece of road, that the council seem unable to mange properly.  I can assure you, very few people are trying to block roads and enjoy being in traffic jams.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Being stuck in a queue ain't classified as ASB.

Yes, a popular piece of road, that the council seem unable to mange properly.  I can assure you, very few people are trying to block roads and enjoy being in traffic jams.

Persistently blocking the road is anti-social. You can repeat that you don't think it is as often as you like, but it is or people wouldn't complain about it.

The road works fine most of the time Personally I wouldn't want to see any more of my tax money spent on a few selfish drivers who can avoid their plight by driving a different way.

Quoted from user23.3

Persistently blocking the road is anti-social. You can repeat that you don't think it is as often as you like, but it is or people wouldn't complain about it.

A driver is being impeded, he is not wilfully trying to block a road.  In any case, being in a traffic jam is not ASB.  If you feel differently, will you be phoning the police if you spot anyone deliberately joining queues?  If you do, please tell us what they say.

Quoted from user23.3

The road works fine most of the time Personally I wouldn't want to see any more of my tax money spent on a few selfish drivers who can avoid their plight by driving a different way.

The thing is, that whole area affects many, like people who are using the car park there.  The black spot has been with us for decades and they still have done nothing to improve matters.  The council, however, could easily do something about it without spending much money.

Quoted from Greenham Common

A driver is being impeded, he is not wilfully trying to block a road.  In any case, being in a traffic jam is not ASB.  If you feel differently, will you be phoning the police if you spot anyone deliberately joining queues?  If you do, please tell us what they say.

You're deliberately confusing anti-social behaviour and committing what's now classed as Anti Social by law.

Anti-social behaviour has been around a lot longer than ASBOs.

Quoted from Greenham Common

The thing is, that whole area affects many, like people who are using the car park there.  The black spot has been with us for decades and they still have done nothing to improve matters.  The council, however, could easily do something about it without spending much money.

Yes and I've suggested three courses of action, you seem to be focusing on the semantics of one of them though.

Quoted from user23.3

What makes you think everyone who's using the bridge is a shopper? There's more to Newbury than shopping.

True - there are also shop workers.  Never mind the closure of the shops will take them off the roads as well as the shoppers.

My suggestion was to reduce congestion without putting in place the measures you propose - not remove all traffic. As your measures would massively reduce the number of shoppers coming to Newbury the shops would close anyway.

The congestion on the Wharf is not only about the bridge - the car parks also contribute a lot of traffic (losts of shoppers there).

Quoted from user23.3

The "poor old sod" is part of the queue, they have in part caused it by their own actions. Blaming the authorities for the consequences of his actions is no better than someone that commits a different type of anti-social act then blames the authorities for there being "nothing to do".

.

Bit of a silly argument, if I queue in the post office, using that logic, is that antisocial behavour because I am part of the queue and blocking the counter from the people behind me.

I like your arguments on here User because they are predictable, you always jump in with an opposite view, not now and again, but all the time. Well done, you must really enjoy winding the spring.

Quoted from brian

Bit of a silly argument, if I queue in the post office, using that logic, is that antisocial behavour because I am part of the queue and blocking the counter from the people behind me.

Yes, user23.3's idea of anti social behaviour is as wacky as any I have heard on here.  Poor crowd management is now the fault of the person caught up in it.