Extensive roadworks are commencing this morning (July 12th) in Bartholomew Street South, as Southern Gas Networks move in to carry out essential replacement work.

Delays and parking restrictions are anticipated.

Extensive roadworks are still continuing in Bartholomew Street, and have cost me £2000 in lost trade in 2 weeks. Whilst the roadworks are relatively well contained and are not obstructing the street at present, ..... there are no parking bays available due to the contractors vehicles taking them all up. Indeed some of the bays are cordoned off and are completely empty ! I spoke to a traffic warden about this and was informed SGN paid £2K to West berkshire Council for the pleasure of using these parking bays ... presumably West Berkshire Council will be re-directing these funds directly into my bank account to make up for loss of trade, as my customers have no where to park ??? The message is simple guys ..... Bartholomew Street - USE IT OR LOOSE IT - it's not really that far to walk from the Kennet Centre ...... in six months time you will all be scratching your heads and saying "wot a shame they have all gone"

Completely sympathise with you Paula.  I usually call in at the bakery on my way to work to get my lunch and was dismayed on Monday to see the bay cordened off and unfortunately it is too far for me to walk to from work at lunch time.  This work has been a complete nightmare since it started for motorists and much worse for retailers....  I just hope it finishes soon for everyone's sake.

You can't park outside most of the shops in town, and that is all year round.   - Are you really suggesting that unless folk can park directly outside they won't shop with you?

Quoted from 78

You can't park outside most of the shops in town, and that is all year round.   - Are you really suggesting that unless folk can park directly outside they won't shop with you?

Not at all - I am suggesting that the rent is up to 10 x more in the centre of town, than I pay. My location enables me to sell nice quality products that are extremely reasonably priced, because my overheads are not so high. My location is also a very convenient place for the elderly of south newbury to shop, who find venturing into town tricky, and for those that don't have time to negotiate the "car parks" in the town centre and need to buy a gift. I have a wide and very happy customer base who sadly can't get to my shop without aggravation at the moment. The same of course applies to the Bakery - can you imagine getting up about 4 am every morning, baking loads of cake/bread etc, and then having to throw it all away at the end of the day, because your customers can't simply stop and pick up their lunch ? What we offer Newbury could almost be described as a "drive through" service.

Quoted from 78

You can't park outside most of the shops in town, and that is all year round.   - Are you really suggesting that unless folk can park directly outside they won't shop with you?

Hey just a thought ..... maybe that's why the retail park is always busier than town ... you can park for free right outside the shops ??

Quoted from PaulaM

Hey just a thought ..... maybe that's why the retail park is always busier than town ... you can park for free right outside the shops ??

It's not though is it, have you walked down Northbrook Street at lunchtime or on a Saturday afternoon?

Quoted from user23.3

It's not though is it, have you walked down Northbrook Street at lunchtime or on a Saturday afternoon?

Yes frequently ! Sadly a lunch break and a Saturday afternoon is not enough to keep these Companies going, on the enormous rents they have to pay . . . Most National Chains "prop" one and other up, any independant trader doesn't stand much of a chance at the moment. Remember the old Thorntons shop nearer the clock tower ? The asking rent was £75K pa when they left - that's a lot of chocolate to sell ! Take a look at local Commercial Agents Websites, and see how many independant traders are going/gone ..... cupcake/petit square/the square/out to lunch etc etc National Companies are currently being "encouraged" with "incentives" to come to Newbury.  Personally I welcome the new park way development - but there has to be a balance - and that ain't happening !!

What's the solution then, government controlled rents for commercial property?

Quoted from PaulaM

Hey just a thought ..... maybe that's why the retail park is always busier than town ... you can park for free right outside the shops ??

No, the retail park appears busier than town because it only has one car park. Everything is focused in that one spot. If you actually go into the shops, they are practically empty.

Quoted from PaulaM

Not at all - I am suggesting that the rent is up to 10 x more in the centre of town, than I pay. My location enables me to sell nice quality products that are extremely reasonably priced, because my overheads are not so high. My location is also a very convenient place for the elderly of south newbury to shop, who find venturing into town tricky, and for those that don't have time to negotiate the "car parks" in the town centre and need to buy a gift. I have a wide and very happy customer base who sadly can't get to my shop without aggravation at the moment. The same of course applies to the Bakery - can you imagine getting up about 4 am every morning, baking loads of cake/bread etc, and then having to throw it all away at the end of the day, because your customers can't simply stop and pick up their lunch ? What we offer Newbury could almost be described as a "drive through" service.

But you only have a very few parking spaces in Bart St. If they are full - which they are almost all the time during the day, do your customers drive back home?

I remember the Laurel blaming the loss of the car park opposite as the reason for them closing.

Quoted from 78

But you only have a very few parking spaces in Bart St. If they are full - which they are almost all the time during the day, do your customers drive back home?

I remember the Laurel blaming the loss of the car park opposite as the reason for them closing.

I am only quoting what my customers are saying "I tried to get in last week, but the roadworks are a nightmare". Thankfully our local MP is not so ignorant to the fact . . . he came and visited us all today - and could see EXACTLY where we are coming from.

Quoted from user23.3

What's the solution then, government controlled rents for commercial property?

Don't think that would work in a "free" world ??  Actually what I would like to see is an area specifically put aside for small local independent businesses and speciality shops - with affordable rents and lots of parking.  There are lots of them in the Midlands and there is enough trade for everyone. It makes for a nice day outside of the major shopping centres. There is hardcore shopping ... and there is relaxing shopping .... being female I am an expert !

Quoted from PaulaM

I am only quoting what my customers are saying "I tried to get in last week, but the roadworks are a nightmare". Thankfully our local MP is not so ignorant to the fact . . . he came and visited us all today - and could see EXACTLY where we are coming from.

This is the same as the 'the loss of the Parkway parking spaces is killing the town' argument, which suggested the if people could not park within 200 yards of the shop they wanted to visit they'd go elsewhere.

It must be down to perception - If you go to Festival Place / Oracle you have to walk a fair distance to get to the first shop. And if you venture out of either Mall, you'll end up walking over a km. Why there is this idea that people won't do this in Newbury to visit either the S end of Bart Street or the Broadway I don't understand.

Quoted from 78

...Why there is this idea that people won't do this in Newbury to visit either the S end of Bart Street or the Broadway I don't understand.

Go and compare the footfall at the top and bottom of town.  The proof is evident.

Quoted from 78

This is the same as the 'the loss of the Parkway parking spaces is killing the town' argument, which suggested the if people could not park within 200 yards of the shop they wanted to visit they'd go elsewhere.

It must be down to perception - If you go to Festival Place / Oracle you have to walk a fair distance to get to the first shop. And if you venture out of either Mall, you'll end up walking over a km. Why there is this idea that people won't do this in Newbury to visit either the S end of Bart Street or the Broadway I don't understand.

Sadly I don't understand either - guess we are all getting lazy - both ends of town appear to be miles away although in reality they are only a couple of minutes walk from the very centre.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Go and compare the footfall at the top and bottom of town.  The proof is evident.

But there's just as much parking at the top with the Euro Car Park, the "Town Centre" Car Park (soon to become two), Pelican Lane, Bayer on Saturdays and so on.

Quoted from user23.3

But there's just as much parking at the top with the Euro Car Park, the "Town Centre" Car Park (soon to become two), Pelican Lane, Bayer on Saturdays and so on.

MMMMMmmm none of those mentioned are South Bartholomew Street are they ??

Quoted from Greenham Common

Go and compare the footfall at the top and bottom of town.  The proof is evident.

Could that be because there is little to attract them there?

I bet if you attached a pedometer to a cross section of the shoppers in Newbury on an average shopping day you'd find the majority will have easily covered enough distance to walk from Blackboys Bridge to the Broadway and back - should they have wanted to.

Quoted from 78

Could that be because there is little to attract them there?

I bet if you attached a pedometer to a cross section of the shoppers in Newbury on an average shopping day you'd find the majority will have easily covered enough distance to walk from Blackboys Bridge to the Broadway and back - should they have wanted to.

Are you implying my shop is not attractive ? Have you been there ? Only yesterday a lady informed me "It was the best things that had happened in Newbury for a very long time " !

Quoted from pinkcoral04

Completely sympathise with you Paula.  I usually call in at the bakery on my way to work to get my lunch and was dismayed on Monday to see the bay cordened off and unfortunately it is too far for me to walk to from work at lunch time.  This work has been a complete nightmare since it started for motorists and much worse for retailers....  I just hope it finishes soon for everyone's sake.

Thank you !

Quoted from PaulaM

I spoke to a traffic warden about this and was informed SGN paid £2K to West berkshire Council for the pleasure of using these parking bays ...

I wonder if they would allow you to rent the spaces for your exclusive use for £2k for over 2 months??
Possibly as they see cars as a means to raise revenue and pay for the idiots at Market St.


Incidentally I see SGN call it essential Gas Main work - so how frequently do they dig up the road when it isn't really necessary??

Quoted from PaulaM

Only yesterday a lady informed me "It was the best things that had happened in Newbury for a very long time " !

ahaa...  You're the kebab shop aren't you?....

Quoted from spartacus

ahaa...  You're the kebab shop aren't you?....

lol - which one ??

Quoted from PaulaM

MMMMMmmm none of those mentioned are South Bartholomew Street are they ??

No, I was just saying that footfall in the north of the town is supposed to be lower however I don't think this is due to parking for the reasons stated.

If enough people aren't enticed to your shop perhaps you shouldn't be blaming the Gas Board for digging up the road before you've exhausted some more plausible possibilities.

Quoted from spartacus

ahaa...  You're the kebab shop aren't you?....

Which one though, are you a fan of Botan or Bodrum?

Quoted from user23.3

No, I was just saying that footfall in the north of the town is supposed to be lower however I don't think this is due to parking for the reasons stated.

If enough people aren't enticed to your shop perhaps you shouldn't be blaming the Gas Board for digging up the road before you've exhausted some more plausible possibilities.Which one though, are you a fan of Botan or Bodrum?

You are missing my point ....  more than enough people were enticed into my shop .... until two weeks ago when the gas board dug up the road directly outside. Actually I am not blaming the gas Board either if you read my earlier posts ..... what galls me is the gas board have had to pay WBC to occupy these parking bays . . . which leads me to my initial comment - will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account to make up for loss of trade ?? ......... this inturn will enable me to purchase a kebab from both shops !!

Quoted from PaulaM

You are missing my point ....  more than enough people were enticed into my shop .... until two weeks ago when the gas board dug up the road directly outside. Actually I am not blaming the gas Board either if you read my earlier posts ..... what galls me is the gas board have had to pay WBC to occupy these parking bays . . . which leads me to my initial comment - will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account to make up for loss of trade ?? ......... this inturn will enable me to purchase a kebab from both shops !!

Are you even sure you weren't being wound up about the money, sounds like it to me.

No offence but "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" just sounds greedy to me, demanding compensation based on rumour.

Quoted from user23.3

Are you even sure you weren't being wound up about the money, sounds like it to me.

No offence but "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" just sounds greedy to me, demanding compensation based on rumour.

No! Direct from WBC Highways - plus when the roadworks over-run they will "penalise" SGN. I suggested it was a good money making scheme for the council but apparently it's not it's "an incentive to make them work quicker"!

Quoted from PaulaM

No! Direct from WBC Highways - plus when the roadworks over-run they will "penalise" SGN. I suggested it was a good money making scheme for the council but apparently it's not it's "an incentive to make them work quicker"!

You phoned them up and they told you that? Fair enough if that's the case.

Quoted from user23.3

You phoned them up and they told you that? Fair enough if that's the case.

To be fair, I wasn't convinced when the Traffic Warden told me  ... so yes I rang the council and it's true.

Quoted from PaulaM

Remember the old Thorntons shop nearer the clock tower ? The asking rent was £75K pa when they left - that's a lot of chocolate to sell !

Now they're leaving their shop near the bridge - perhaps they will reappear in Bart St?

Quoted from PaulaM

To be fair, I wasn't convinced when the Traffic Warden told me  ... so yes I rang the council and it's true.

I still think it's a bit greedy, trying to claim £2000 of taxpayers money.

Quoted from user23.3

I still think it's a bit greedy, trying to claim £2000 of taxpayers money.

Very greedy, that's why we have all these thriving independent businesses queuing to get a foothold into the south of Newbury town!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Very greedy, that's why we have all these thriving independent businesses queuing to get a foothold into the south of Newbury town!  

Business is all about greed isn't it? At least that's what I think Comrade Cable said.

Quoted from user23.3

I still think it's a bit greedy, trying to claim £2000 of taxpayers money.

Are you going to refund your salary then??

Quoted from user23.3

Business is all about greed isn't it? At least that's what I think Comrade Cable said.

That's the motive that drives most of us, greed. I see no difference in that respect between the active business person or the employee who wants to be paid.
I cannot understand why people who put their neck on the block and often at huge personal risk should be vilified if their business becomes really profitable and they do well financially. No different to a CEO or Head teacher taking an exorbitant salary for the job they do.

Quoted from brian

That's the motive that drives most of us, greed.

Speak for yourself.

It is incumbent on a business to be 'greedy'; good fortune can quickly go in reverse and then you will thank yourself for being so.  A new state of the art shopping mall near-by, or endless roadworks for instance.

Quoted from Greenham Common

It is incumbent on a business to be 'greedy'.

Yes, this does seem to be attitude from some businesses, greedily putting their own interests ahead of society and community, the former sometimes working to the detriment of the latter. Look at the example in this thread, not "will the community see any of this money" but "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account".

Quoted from user23.3

Yes, this does seem to be attitude from some businesses, greedily putting their own interests ahead of society and community, the former sometimes working to the detriment of the latter. Look at the example in this thread, not "will the community see any of this money" but "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account".

You missed the qualifying statement that followed that passage, notwithstanding that I braced the word greed with apostrophes.  The shop keeper claims to have made a loss through the work being carried out.  It seems the council have been paid by contractors to use space otherwise provided for potential customers.  It doesn't seem to me a problem, in principle, for that monies to find its way back to those that have commercially lost out.

Quoted from user23.3

Speak for yourself.

Have you refunded your salary yet???

Quoted from user23.3

I still think it's a bit greedy, trying to claim £2000 of taxpayers money.

I resent your implications that I am greedy. You have absolutely NO IDEA how much I earn, How much I work etc etc. I have neither the time nor inclination to "chat" with someone who twists everyones words. You will no doubt not have a problem "spending tax payers money" at the Councils Christmas Do.

Quoted from user23.3

I still think it's a bit greedy, trying to claim £2000 of taxpayers money.

I have checked on the £2000.00 paid by SGN. This was the sum of money requested by West Berks to administer the suspension of parking orders, to allow the work to proceed.

I am afraid that the worst is still to come in this location. The Pound Street traffic lights are going to be switched off, to allow temporary traffic lights on Blackboys Bridge. The work should be completed by mid November at the very latest.

Whilst I agree that if WBC have obtained money for the spaces it would be a good idea to pass this on to those impacted BUT I think it would have to be split between the 20 or so other businesses down the street, so you may find your £2000 becoming £100.........and I doubt that is going to hit the spot!

Quoted from BrianB

I have checked on the £2000.00 paid by SGN. This was the sum of money requested by West Berks to administer the suspension of parking orders, to allow the work to proceed.

2k for 'administration'!!!  

Quoted from BrianB

I am afraid that the worst is still to come in this location. The Pound Street traffic lights are going to be switched off, to allow temporary traffic lights on Blackboys Bridge. The work should be completed by mid November at the very latest.

We'll see!!!

Quoted from Gumpo

Whilst I agree that if WBC have obtained money for the spaces it would be a good idea to pass this on to those impacted BUT I think it would have to be split between the 20 or so other businesses down the street, so you may find your £2000 becoming £100.........and I doubt that is going to hit the spot!

I doubt it also!

Quoted from Gumpo

Whilst I agree that if WBC have obtained money for the spaces it would be a good idea to pass this on to those impacted BUT I think it would have to be split between the 20 or so other businesses down the street, so you may find your £2000 becoming £100.........and I doubt that is going to hit the spot!

I was not suggesting for one minute I had the lot ! .... and you're right it won't hit the spot . . . .  but then there are my business rates which have also increased by 50% this year too (fact) and I can't even have a wheelie bin !!

Quoted from user23.3

Speak for yourself.

So now that you've managed once again to divert the thread and start a smokescreen, what motivates you in your employment.

Quoted from BrianB

I have checked on the £2000.00 paid by SGN. This was the sum of money requested by West Berks to administer the suspension of parking orders, to allow the work to proceed.

I am afraid that the worst is still to come in this location. The Pound Street traffic lights are going to be switched off, to allow temporary traffic lights on Blackboys Bridge. The work should be completed by mid November at the very latest.

All good for the council though . .  if the works extend past 11th October, when the Streetworks Order expires they can fine SGN. WBC see it as "an incentive to make the workers go faster" . . . . or is it as a reason for cash strapped WBC NOT to push them ???

Quoted from brian

So now that you've managed once again to divert the thread and start a smokescreen, what motivates you in your employment.

Do you think WBC are motivated???

I didn't question how much you work or earn but hang on..

Quoted from PaulaM

will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account

Quoted from PaulaM

I was not suggesting for one minute I had the lot !

..do you want the two grand or not, you seem to have changed your mind.

All I'm saying it I think that's a little greedy that's all, wanting it all paid in to your bank account without a thought for anyone else. Don't take it personally though, someone has already pointed out business is all about greed.

Now what's this about a "Councils Christmas Do" you're on about?

It seems to me rather 'greedy' that the council wants £2k for 'administration purposes'.

The thing is user23.3, people who get paid a salary will be paid regardless of performance (for a while).  If a shop keeper has patrons put off by circumstances beyond their control, they don't get money.  Being 'greedy' is necessary to counter the lean periods.

Quoted from user23.3

All I'm saying it I think that's a little greedy that's all, wanting it all paid in to your bank account without a thought for anyone else. Don't take it personally though, someone has already pointed out business is all about greed.

Quoted from user23.3

Business is all about greed isn't it? At least that's what I think Comrade Cable said.

Oh, it was you.

Quoted from user23.3

I didn't question how much you work or earn but hang on....do you want the two grand or not, you seem to have changed your mind.

All I'm saying it I think that's a little greedy that's all, wanting it all paid in to your bank account without a thought for anyone else. Don't take it personally though, someone has already pointed out business is all about greed.

Now what's this about a "Councils Christmas Do" you're on about?

That's funny .... your comment earlier also went on about MP's private bars ..... you appear to have changed your mind ...... or lost your bottle ?? So back to the other questions .... what motivates you ?..... we are all waiting with baited breath - we would also love to hear what it is that you do for the community at large ?

The problem with a word like greed, is that it is subjective.  One man's greed, is another man's prudence.  Either way, I think user23.3 used the wrong adjective to describe PaulaM.  I cannot see how wishing to be compensated is greedy.  Surly it is greedy to wish to have more than one is entitled to?  PaulaM claims to have lost trade which in cash terms is equal to the amount paid by the subby to the council. user23.3 might have a point for using the word selfish, but I would imagine PaulaM was being sarcastic at the suggestion that the £2k would find its way into here bank account.

Regrettably, despite user23.3's illusion of altruistic principles, it seems that, yet again, he is simply being obtuse for the sake of obfuscating an issue that appears to show the regional council in bad light.  In other words, he's being a wind-up merchant.

As far as I can tell, the principle that PaulaM is concerned with is: why should the council charge and keep money for the suby's use of the parking bays, when it is the local shop-keepers who materially lose out?

The could be a case for the Council to charge if the bays were pay-and-display and the Council were losing revenue. But they aint and they're not.

Can the local shopowners not claim business rate relief? The roadworks seem to have gone on forever. You gotta feel sorry for them. In fact, come to think about it, didn't the first lot of works start on the wrong week?


Threep.

Quoted from brian

Oh, it was you.

Vince Cable, actually. I just mentioned that Comrade Cable spoke about greed.

Quoted from PaulaM

That's funny .... your comment earlier also went on about MP's private bars .....

I don't think anyone mentioned MPs private bars.

Quoted from Threepwood

The could be a case for the Council to charge if the bays were pay-and-display and the Council were losing revenue. But they aint and they're not.

Can the local shopowners not claim business rate relief? The roadworks seem to have gone on forever. You gotta feel sorry for them. In fact, come to think about it, didn't the first lot of works start on the wrong week?

Seems like good business sense to me and aren't we always hearing from some that the council should be run more like a business.

Now perhaps some of this should be passed on to traders affected, however for one to say of the two grand "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is just greedy in my book. Seems there's no comradeship amongst traders and it's everyone for themselves.

Quoted from user23.3

Vince Cable, actually. I just mentioned that Comrade Cable spoke about greed.

Yes, but that was clearly in your mind as a personal opinion with an obscure reference to some Comrade or another who was obviously socialist whilst we, courtesy of our government, are a capitalist society.

PS You know and everybody else knows that the bar reference was pointed at WBC councillors, rightly or wrongly. I don't believe you ever came back with the answer to that point.

Quoted from brian

Yes, but that was clearly in your mind as a personal opinion with an obscure reference to some Comrade or another who was obviously socialist whilst we, courtesy of our government, are a capitalist society.

Vince Cable is hardly obscure, he's the current business Business Secretary for "our government". Surely you must have seen his comments from last week about greed?

As user23.3 is up to his usual fun and games, I'm bumping my post.

The problem with a word like greed, is that it is subjective.  One man's greed, is another man's prudence.  Either way, I think user23.3 used the wrong adjective to describe PaulaM.  I cannot see how wishing to be compensated is greedy.  Surely it is greedy to wish to have more than one is entitled to?  PaulaM claims to have lost trade which in cash terms is equal to the amount paid by the subby to the council. user23.3 might have a point for using the word selfish, but I would imagine PaulaM was being sarcastic at the suggestion that the £2k would find its way into here bank account.

Regrettably, despite user23.3's illusion of altruistic principles, it seems that, yet again, he is simply being obtuse for the sake of obfuscating an issue that appears to show the regional council in bad light.  In other words, he's being a wind-up merchant.

As far as I can tell, the principle that PaulaM is concerned with is: why should the council charge and keep money for the suby's use of the parking bays, when it is the local shop-keepers who materially lose out?

Blimey..This is all a bit heavy ain't it?

Quoted from user23.3

Vince Cable is hardly obscure, he's the current business Business Secretary for "our government". Surely you must have seen his comments from last week about greed?

Exactly, couldn't make it in the labour party so joined the lib dems but obviously retains his socialist viewpoint. Just the sort of guy we need in that position.

I'd like to know what Vince Cable's speech and his opinions about the finance market, has got to do with an independent shop keeper in Newbury who has had to endure protracted road works in front of their shop, and a council who charge a subby for parking, seemingly ignoring the damage they might be doing to trade.

Vince Cable did not use the word 'greed' once in his speech.

Quoted from Greenham Common

I'd like to know what Vince Cable's speech and his opinions about the finance market, has got to do with an independent shop keeper in Newbury who has had to endure protracted road works in front of their shop, and a council who charge a subby for parking, seemingly ignoring the damage they might be doing to trade.

We moved on to discuss the greed of business following the comments of Vince Cable (the Business Secretary) earlier this week.

This is generally how conversations often work moving from one topic to the next, I don't see why a chat board should be any different.

Quoted from user23.3

We moved on to discuss the greed of business following the comments of Vince Cable (the Business Secretary) earlier this week.

This is generally how conversations often work moving from one topic to the next, I don't see why a chat board should be any different.

It was you that introduced the idea of greed and mentioned Vince Cable.  I think that your use of greed is misplaced in this instance and I also don't believe Vince Cable's comments are relevant; it dealt with a different aspect of business.  If there is any 'greed' here, it lies more with the council, as is their apparent insensitivity to the needs of the established independent businesses in town; in particular, the south end.

User23 thinks all shopowners are greedy.  He has made many similar comments on this forum in the past.

Quoted from Downlander

User23 thinks all shopowners are greedy.  He has made many similar comments on this forum in the past.

It's an excellent diversionary tactic which seems to work. It happens whenever the thread gets close to a criticism of WBC.

Quoted from Threepwood

The could be a case for the Council to charge if the bays were pay-and-display and the Council were losing revenue. But they aint and they're not.

Can the local shopowners not claim business rate relief? The roadworks seem to have gone on forever. You gotta feel sorry for them. In fact, come to think about it, didn't the first lot of works start on the wrong week?


Threep.

Business Relief - Sadly not . . . . Roadworks - Yes it does seem like FOREVER ........ and don't feel sorry for us ..... SHOP WITH US  

Stop being so greedy!    Stop wanting to earn living!   Start being a charity!  

Quoted from Downlander

User23 thinks all shopowners are greedy.  He has made many similar comments on this forum in the past.

Of course I don't, I just think the statement "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is greedy. What about her fellow shop owners, do they not get anything?

The criticism seems to be for the council charging the gas company two grand for using a parking pay they probably would have used anyway, probably getting just a 25 quid fine for doing so.

Now to me, that seems like good business sense and perhaps some could learn a few lessons and given no one has actually suggested how it could have been done better this seems to back up this view.

Quoted from user23.3

Of course I don't, I just think the statement "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is greedy. What about her fellow shop owners, do they not get anything?

Yes they've got a shite council who think feck all about their livelihoods !!!

Quoted from user23.3

Of course I don't, I just think the statement "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is greedy. What about her fellow shop owners, do they not get anything?

How can asking a question be greedy?  I don't see someone being compensated as being greedy either.

Quoted from Greenham Common

How can asking a question be greedy?  I don't see someone being compensated as being greedy either.

There's being compensated, then there's asking for everything for oneself. "Are Newbury businesses to be compensated by the gas board" would be a fair question, "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is basically giving two fingers to everyone else.

Is there camaraderie in Newbury business or is it everyone for themselves? From experience I've always thought it was the former, comments like the one in question make me think otherwise.

Quoted from user23.3

There's being compensated, then there's asking for everything for oneself. "Are Newbury businesses to be compensated by the gas board" would be a fair question, "will WBC be transferring the money directly into my bank account" is basically giving two fingers to everyone else.

No it isn't.  That is your spin.

Quoted from user23.3

Is there camaraderie in Newbury business or is it everyone for themselves? From experience I've always thought it was the former, comments like the one in question make me think otherwise.

Shop keepers know that they mutually benefot from other shops (of different merchendice) being busy.  PaulaM was making a point.  At no time have I read that she thinks she should be paid more than that which she has lost out.  Indeed; she went on to clarify her position, so your instance on misusing the word 'greedy' is wrong.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Shop keepers know that they mutually benefot from other shops (of different merchendice) being busy.  PaulaM was making a point.  At no time have I read that she thinks she should be paid more than that which she has lost out.  Indeed; she went on to clarify her position, so your instance on misusing the word 'greedy' is wrong.

Shop keepers and business folk in general are in competition for the finite amount of trade in Newbury, they compete with each other even if they're not in the same field of business.

I'm confident however that these comments aren't indicative of business people in Newbury who generally help each other out, in my experience.

Quoted from user23.3

Shop keepers and business folk in general are in competition for the finite amount of trade in Newbury, they compete with each other even if they're not in the same field of business.

I'm confident however that these comments aren't indicative of business people in Newbury who generally help each other out, in my experience.

User (number whatever) is STILL banging on about my "greed" ..... so I am still going to bang on and ask the question "what motivates you ??" - a question he has failed to answer several times now ??? .... It would appear his sole purpose in life, at present, is to call me Greedy  

Quoted from user23.3

Shop keepers and business folk in general are in competition for the finite amount of trade in Newbury, they compete with each other even if they're not in the same field of business.

How does that work then ??? I went to the Baker to buy a currant bun - they didn't have any - so I went to the hardware store and bought some nails instead  ???  

Quoted from PaulaM

User (number whatever) is STILL banging on about my "greed" ..... so I am still going to bang on and ask the question "what motivates you ??" - a question he has failed to answer several times now ??? .... It would appear his sole purpose in life, at present, is to call me Greedy  

He is employed by the council - do you believe he is motivated apart from taking your money??

Quoted from Nobby

He is employed by the council - do you believe he is motivated apart from taking your money??

Do we know which department ??

Quoted from user23.3
Perhaps. On the same subject I hear Glynis' Garden (Bartholomew Street, Newbury) sell many fine conversation pieces at very reasonable prices.    Zipper Dee Do Dah Zipper Dee Day

People ... it is one of his tack ticks; to deflect poor publicity for the council.  I cannot ever remember him having a poor word for them.  You are allowing him to deflect the conversation and debate.  He picked up on a flippant passage in PaulaM's OP and is running with it as far as he can, offering little or no supporting arguments for it.  PaulaM might have displayed a sarcastic tone which could be construed as selfish (I don't think it was) but she was not being greedy; that is user23.3's spin.

At the end of the day, Bart St south has had a LOT of upheaval, not to mention, it seems, a large increase in business rates; yet the council seem to have little regard for the independent shop keeper, particularly in that part of town..

Quoted from Greenham Common

People ... it is one of his tack ticks; to deflect poor publicity for the council.  I cannot ever remember him having a poor word for them.  You are allowing him to deflect the conversation and debate.  He picked up on a flippant passage in PaulaM's OP and is running with it as far as he can, offering little or no supporting arguments for it.  PaulaM might have displayed a sarcastic tone which could be construed as selfish (I don't think it was) but she was not being greedy; that is user23.3's spin.

At the end of the day, Bart St south has had a LOT of upheaval, not to mention, it seems, a large increase in business rates; yet the council seem to have little regard for the independent shop keeper, particularly in that part of town..

EXACTLY !! So what can we do about it ? - Constructive Suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

Quoted from PaulaM

How does that work then ??? I went to the Baker to buy a currant bun - they didn't have any - so I went to the hardware store and bought some nails instead  ???  

I'm taking about disposable income, which in pretty much everyone's case is finite.

Quoted from PaulaM

EXACTLY !! So what can we do about it ? - Constructive Suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

Charge for use of the bays (because I bet they'll get used anyway) and pass the money on to all those affected in the area could be an option.

I suggested this earlier before people started playing What's My Line with me and diverting the conversation from the good business the council had done.

Quoted from PaulaM

EXACTLY !! So what can we do about it ? - Constructive Suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

As we have meandered somewhat, would you clarify what you mean about what we can do about what?

PS  - Please everybody, try not to rise to user23.3 bait in his last post!  

Quoted from user23.3

I'm taking about disposable income, which in pretty much everyone's case is finite.Charge for use of the bays (because I bet they'll get used anyway) and pass the money on to all those affected in the area could be an option.

I suggested this earlier before people started playing What's My Line with me and diverting the conversation from the good business the council had done.

Whenever WBC do their first bit of good business don't worry we will get the flags out and hold a party!!

Quoted from Greenham Common

As we have meandered somewhat, would you clarify what you mean about what we can do about what?

PS  - Please everybody, try not to rise to user23.3 bait in his last post!  

Sorry I was referring to your post " At the end of the day, Bart St south has had a LOT of upheaval, not to mention, it seems, a large increase in business rates; yet the council seem to have little regard for the independent shop keeper, particularly in that part of town.." - so what can we do about it ?

PS I already decided not to rise to the bait - I went and made a cuppa instead  

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=14656


Good write up about this but its says the figure paid was £1,500.  I am annoyed once again as I could not get my sandwich on the way to work as not only are these workers blocking bays but then some of the public are parking their car right in the middle of what space there is and thereby taking up two bays.....   Also coming down St Michaels Road one of the workers sat at the end of the junction with Bartholomew Street with his door open.....  Are they really that stupid they can not see that is putting drivers in a dangerous position trying to get out of the junction as not only are they having to go round him but his open door also !!  GRR think I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

I am annoyed once again as I could not get my sandwich

so, are you suggesting that when there are no raod works you can park outside Heatherton's every morning?  

Quoted from 78

I am annoyed once again as I could not get my sandwich

so, are you suggesting that when there are no raod works you can park outside Heatherton's every morning?  

Yes nine times out of ten I can get a spot .  Really depends on the time I come in if I get there about 7.30 there is no problem but if it is 8.15 they are slightly busier.

Quoted from pinkcoral04

Yes nine times out of ten I can get a spot .  Really depends on the time I come in if I get there about 7.30 there is no problem but if it is 8.15 they are slightly busier.

Some people really don't seem to be able to grasp ..... no parking .... no trade do they ??

Quoted from pinkcoral04

Yes nine times out of ten I can get a spot .  Really depends on the time I come in if I get there about 7.30 there is no problem but if it is 8.15 they are slightly busier.

In 45 minutes you could have made a sandwich!!

Quoted from Nobby

In 45 minutes you could have made a sandwich!!

I doubt it if you count the time sourcing the ingredients plus getting fresh bread or baguette each day. Much nicer to choose a fresh and different lunch filling each day. Costs a bit more probably but soooo much nicer. The thing I find when I make my own sandwich is that there is no nice surprise when I eat it as it was the same as yesterday and probably tomorrow because that's how far a pack of ham goes.

Quoted from PaulaM

Some people really don't seem to be able to grasp ..... no parking .... no trade do they ??

The lady in the Bridal shop does.

This thread seems to have changed subjects to sandwiches as soon as suggestions for making the situation better were asked for.

It's easy to criticise isn't it, not so easy to solve the problems oneself?

Quoted from user23.3

This thread seems to have changed subjects to sandwiches as soon as suggestions for making the situation better were asked for.

It's easy to criticise isn't it, not so easy to solve the problems oneself?

For ONCE we agree ! Couldn't help but notice, this thread "died" when I asked for constructive suggestions

I'm always worried about interrupting staff f** breaks if I go into the shops along Bart Street.

Quoted from PaulaM

For ONCE we agree ! Couldn't help but notice, this thread "died" when I asked for constructive suggestions

It is your shop, what do you suggest?  My position was that the council have almost 'contrived' to make running a business in the south end of Newbury very difficult.  We could ask that the council help the local business in times of hardship, so what have they done so far?  Trousered £1.5 to £2k from the contractor.

Quoted from Greenham Common

It is your shop, what do you suggest?  My position was that the council have almost 'contrived' to make running a business in the south end of Newbury very difficult.  We could ask that the council help the local business in times of hardship, so what have they done so far?  Trousered £1.5 to £2k from the contractor.

Couldn't agree more.  The only suggestion I can come up with, is that WBC help local independant businesses, by way of re-distributing their newfound wealth or decreasing the business rates temporarily in the areas effected.  As far as I can make out though, we the public, have absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever, no matter who we vote for.  Who exactly can instigate a change ? Think the expression is "stuck between a rock and a hard place". Think I have mentioned this before - I think small independant shops should be treated differently to large national chains, and really deserve the opportunity to start a successful business in their home town.  Incidentally Rent is cheaper in The Oracle, Reading than the new Parkway development.

The council should not be  treating one commercial enterprise diffrently to another. What is needed is a philanthropic landlord.

Quoted from Nobby

In 45 minutes you could have made a sandwich!!

I don't want to make a sandwich I want to buy a sandwich and the roadworks have prevented me from doing so.  It has affected all of the businesses along that road.  There should have been a reduction in the fees the council charges them for the time this work is going or probably the gas company itself should have paid out some form of compensation.  They rake in the profits and do darn all when they cause this sort of disruption.

Quoted from 78

The council should not be  treating one commercial enterprise diffrently to another. What is needed is a philanthropic landlord.

My landlord is a star ! Incidently he is local too.

Quoted from user23.3

This thread seems to have changed subjects to sandwiches as soon as suggestions for making the situation better were asked for.

Well no it didn't. The comment Paula made was that it was almost impossible to park to get a sandwich for lunch from a trader that trades in the Southern end of Bartholomew Street because of the current disruption by the gas people. This was a valid point to identify what the traders difficulties are. I believe that Nobby thought that it took 45mins to buy a sandwich hence my reply.

Quoted from PaulaM

Couldn't agree more.  The only suggestion I can come up with, is that WBC help local independant businesses, by way of re-distributing their newfound wealth

This is what I suggested a couple of days ago.

Quoted from user23.3

This is what I suggested a couple of days ago.

  Is it me ??????????????

Quoted from brian

Well no it didn't. The comment Paula made was that it was almost impossible to park to get a sandwich for lunch from a trader that trades in the Southern end of Bartholomew Street because of the current disruption by the gas people. This was a valid point to identify what the traders difficulties are. I believe that Nobby thought that it took 45mins to buy a sandwich hence my reply.

Actually it's pink coral that can't get her lunch, and she is a paying un-bias customer - thanks for your support though !

Quoted from PaulaM

  Is it me ??????????????

What?

Quoted from PaulaM

Actually it's pink coral that can't get her lunch, and she is a paying un-bias customer - thanks for your support though !

Yes tis me causing trouble......  I actually have limited mobility and so need to park close to the shop I am using.  Heatheringtons is one such place and the sandwiches there are fresh and made to order which I love.  Sorry Paula not visited your shop just due to the fact I work 9-5 which are your opening hours and again due to mobility I can not walk there.  This is why I am partly annoyed at the roadworks not just for me and my sandwich but because of the shops on Bart Street loosing trade.  We go to work to earn money and if I could not get to my desk to do so I would be really, really pi**ed off so any of you out there calling these shopkeepers greedy you are having a laugh.  Like I say if you could not get to your desk and earn your wage you would be annoyed too........

The ongoing road works have been the final straw for the Prim Dry Cleaners at 35 Bartholomew Street.

They have suffered with the Green Meanies harassing their customers mercilessly for the last 18months. Their business was decimated by the temporary traffic lights at the junction of Market Street with Bart Street. The ongoing everlasting road works have continued to give problems and now the landlord wants to increase the rent. They have no choice other than to shut up shop and leave town.

I am sure that User23 will generate his own spin on this, but I know that the majority of retailers in this area are having a really tough time at the moment.

Quoted from BrianB

The ongoing road works have been the final straw for the Prim Dry Cleaners at 35 Bartholomew Street.

They have suffered with the Green Meanies harassing their customers mercilessly for the last 18months. Their business was decimated by the temporary traffic lights at the junction of Market Street with Bart Street. The ongoing everlasting road works have continued to give problems and now the landlord wants to increase the rent. They have no choice other than to shut up shop and leave town.

I am sure that User23 will generate his own spin on this, but I know that the majority of retailers in this area are having a really tough time at the moment.

You will also find 36/37/37a are up for sale too, so who knows what will become of the tenants ?                                                                              

Probably a lot more kebab and Indian takeaways on the way then.

I'm still to see any constructive suggestions other than my own that perhaps the council could charge more for the use of the bays and pass it on to the traders. Anyone have any?

Quoted from user23.3

I'm still to see any constructive suggestions other than my own that perhaps the council could charge more for the use of the bays and pass it on to the traders. Anyone have any?

Charge for the use of what bays? Do you mean the "GOODS VEHICLES ONLY" bays - and how would you administer that! Or maybe you mean the odd car parking bays, where you can extort more money from the shopping public, so they have less in their pockets to spend, eh! What a good move !!!   

Maybe the extorionate increases in business rates should be reviewed first, and reduced where shops are not enjoying free and uninterupted trading. Now that might go some way to a sensible solution.

Now now, LocalRes, you're starting to sound like user23.3!  

Does anyone know how many 'free' parking bays there are in Bart St south?  I presume they are 1 hour parking bays?

Quoted from Greenham Common

Now now, LocalRes, you're starting to sound like user23.3!  

What! How very dare you, how dare you associate me with that..............!

You remove that comment, then i'll remove mine!

Quoted from LocalRes

Charge for the use of what bays? Do you mean the "GOODS VEHICLES ONLY" bays - and how would you administer that! Or maybe you mean the odd car parking bays, where you can extort more money from the shopping public, so they have less in their pockets to spend, eh! What a good move !!!   

Maybe the extorionate increases in business rates should be reviewed first, and reduced where shops are not enjoying free and uninterupted trading. Now that might go some way to a sensible solution.

No, obviously I mean charge the gas board for using them as has already been discussed in this thread.

Quoted from LocalRes

What! How very dare you, how dare you associate me with that..............!  You remove that comment, then i'll remove mine!

Not at all, you are entitled to your opinion: only that I wish that some people would realise that it is not necessary to be rude with other people's opinions: and you, like user23.3, replied in a rude way to his.

Now if we wish user23.3 to be more respectful, then we perhaps should do the same.

How's that for some piety!!!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Now now, LocalRes, you're starting to sound like user23.3!  

Does anyone know how many 'free' parking bays there are in Bart St south?  I presume they are 1 hour parking bays?

They are only half hour slots. I don't know how many there are. Guessing around 12. - only a guess mind.

Quoted from user23.3

No, obviously I mean charge the gas board for using them as has already been discussed in this thread.

But WBC ARE charging the gas board - and they are NOT passing the money to traders. Which is how I started this whole thread ..... and you have been on my case EVER SINCE about being greedy because I sarcastically said they could transfer it directly to my bank account. Bless, you are such hard work   ..... but entertaining ! The parking bays are only half hour slots, so it probably wouldn't generate enough income to pay for the meter. And besides, a visit to most retailers (eg the baker and drycleaners) are a 1 minute dash - so most people would probably run the gauntlet anyway - just like they currently do in the disabled and loading bays.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Not at all, you are entitled to your opinion: only that I wish that some people would realise that it is not necessary to be rude with other people's opinions: and you, like user23.3, replied in a rude way to his.

Now if we wish user23.3 to be more respectful, then we perhaps should do the same.

How's that for some piety!!!  

RUDE! Not at all, if maybe a little scarcastic! But maybe you ought to re-read the entire thread, including some of your posts, and decide if that is the right word to use! Frying pan calling the kettle comes to mind!

As for User23.3, I have no resemblance whatsoever, except possibly the same gender. I do not spend my life on here trying to twist opinions.................. but enough said on this, before more accusations fly around!

I am an ex trader (shopkeeper if it suits better) of some 40+ years standing, some of which was in Bart. St., and I still take an active interest in the welfare of, and especially, the smaller independents, who have been down-trodden (in my opinion) for a considerable number of years.

I have opinions, and will share them when I feel appropriate - this is not being RUDE!

Maybe you should re-read this thread: http://www.newbury.net/forum/m-1285490817/s-new/#num34
and possibly your comments about User23.3 before slating others!
And by the way, I agree with the comments about User23.3 on that thread also, including yours!

Quoted from LocalRes

RUDE! Not at all, if maybe a little scarcastic! But maybe you ought to re-read the entire thread, including some of your posts, and decide if that is the right word to use! Frying pan calling the kettle comes to mind!

At least I'll admit to being rude; as I have been, BUT, it is not my default, I don't usually start it as it were.

Quoted from LocalRes

As for User23.3, I have no resemblance whatsoever, except possibly the same gender. I do not spend my life on here trying to twist opinions.................. but enough said on this, before more accusations fly around!

Damn, just as I was about to argue!


One thing, if you are going to use the Internet, please try to under stand how things work and if I post a sentence  with a   at the end, it is a phrase meant as a joke!  Like the one you got all uppity about!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Does anyone know how many 'free' parking bays there are in Bart St south?  I presume they are 1 hour parking bays?

There are around 25-30 parking bays in this road, depending on what size the vehicles are, and how they are parked. Obviously with the road works this capacity has been reduced by around 30%.  They are 30 minute limited waiting bays, that operate Monday to Saturday, 8am - 6pm.  The Loading Only bays are essential, as if good vehicles were allowed to park on the double yellow lines on Bartholomew Street South, the resulting traffic problems would be very bad.  

All Loading is prohibited on the Double Yellow Lines in Bart St South.  Any vehicle stopping on these Double Yellow Lines (inc. Blue Badge Holders) could receive an instant Penalty Charge Notice, of £70 (reduced to £35 if paid within 2 weeks).

We do not harrass customers in this area, we enforce parking regulations for the benefit of all road users, not just customers of these establishments.  There is a 415 space multi storey car park (including 20 odd disabled badge bays) within around 100-300 meters of the above mentioned shops.

There are also numerous 2 hour limited waiting bays in Craven Road and St Michaels Road, which are also very near all of the shops.  There are two surface pay and display car parks in the vicinity (Market Street and 8 Bells) and on Saturdays, the Market Street Council Staff Car Park is available for use for a small fee.  There is plenty of parking in this area, if you add all the spaces up there are around 600, it just happens that people may actually have to walk a short distance to use these shops. (God forbid)

CORRECTED:- figures for the amount of parking spaces

Quoted from greenmeanie61

There is a 320 space multi storey car park (including 30 odd disabled badge bays) within around 100 meters from all of the above mentioned shops.

You are probably not aware of the council employees who take up many of these spaces every day. Their registration details are programmed into the APNR system, which allows them free parking.

Quoted from Archie

You are probably not aware of the council employees who take up many of these spaces every day. Their registration details are programmed into the APNR system, which allows them free parking.

I'm not sure why you think that this is the case, but your comments are a fabrication and are totally untrue. The LPR (licence plate recognition) system is used for Blue Badge Holders only, who cannot come to the Car Parks Office to have their parking vaildated.  Council staff use authorised parking outside of the Multi Stories (inc. Northbrook Multi Storey)  

Council Staff mainly use the following car parks :-

Northcroft Lane West
Goldwell Park
The private staff car park to the rear of the Market Street Offices
Private car parks at other council office sites.

It is true however, that around 5 council works vehicles use the car park to park overnight for reasons of security.  This does not affect the day time capacity of the car park.  (It is worth stating that no valuables are left in these vehicles overnight)

Hooray for a decent post.

Is parking free for council workers at all of the above?

Quoted from richard.garvie

Is parking free for council workers at all of the above?

I believe (but am not sure) that parking permits are purchased through departmental budgets.  This would probably be confirmed with a Freedom of Information request.

According to the council website, there are 415 spaces in this car park, including 21 reserved for Blue Badge Holders.

Quoted from greenmeanie61

I believe (but am not sure) that parking permits are purchased through departmental budgets.  This would probably be confirmed with a Freedom of Information request.

I think you mean "free" Season Tickets.

Quoted from BrianB

According to the council website, there are 415 spaces in this car park, including 21 reserved for Blue Badge Holders.

Apologies, my figures are incorrect. Brian, you are correct.  So, the parking in the vicinity of Bartholomew street far exceeds my original post!

Thanks for the correction.


    Quoted from BrianB


    I think you mean "free" Season Tickets.



As i say, the information we are arguing over would be confirmed with a freedom of information request. Who is going to submit one?

Anything else before I go?

Quoted from greenmeanie61

Anything else before I go?

No, your lunch hour must be nearly over. Back out into the rain I suppose. You have to achieve your "Five a day".

Quoted from BrianB

No, your lunch hour must be nearly over. Back out into the rain I suppose. You have to achieve your "Five a day".

How immature. I am not going to rise to your bait and have a silly argument with you.  Today, I have tried to provide nothing but factual, non-emotive answers.  Does anyone else agree with BrainB's comment?

To think, you stood as a candidate to be our local MP. Would you find Richard Beynon MP making such a silly post?  Or would you've made this comment in the House Of Commons?

What's that old saying, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit"?  Good day to you, Sir.