Todays racing at Newbury has been abandoned, as two horses are believed to have been electrocuted.

Two horses have died in the paddock, just before the start of the first race. Fenix Two and Marching Song collapsed and fell to the ground, with the reasons for their death unknown.

Several others stumbled, but managed to recover in time for the start of the race. One of the girls leading the horses reported a tingling sensation as she walked on the damp grass.

The most obvious cause is electrocution, but this has yet to be confirmed.

At 14.10 the decision was taken to abandon the rest of the day’s meeting

Horrible and very sad

It's such a horrible thing to happen. In one of the news reports I heard they hinted at sabotage. How could anyone do that if this is the case?

Someone is to blame, quite obviously, either through neglect or poor workmanship or whatever...and
they should be charged with Manslaughter(or Horseslaughter) as they have killed a living being. There is no excuse and they should be sued for every penny they have! ( I say a life for a life!)

Quoted from dodgy

Someone is to blame, quite obviously, either through neglect or poor workmanship or whatever...and
they should be charged with Manslaughter(or Horseslaughter) as they have killed a living being. There is no excuse and they should be sued for every penny they have! ( I say a life for a life!)

Just the sort of unthinking sensationalist posting that would be expected. It says something about our society today. Compensation madness.

Quoted from brian

Just the sort of unthinking sensationalist posting that would be expected. It says something about our society today. Compensation madness.

And your suggestion is???
Todays society is too bloody soft...that's why we are overcrowded (to say the least) is it not?
Someone needs to make a bold stand to administer  deterants that should have been in place decades ago!

Quoted from dodgy

And your suggestion is???
Todays society is too bloody soft...that's why we are overcrowded (to say the least) is it not?
Someone needs to make a bold stand to administer  deterants that should have been in place decades ago!

Sue somebody for compensation and that will reduce the "overcrowding" problem. Good suggestion.

Quoted from brian

Just the sort of unthinking sensationalist posting that would be expected. It says something about our society today. Compensation madness.

There's so much wrong with his post. Blame and compensation culture mixed up with Right Wing views about being overcrowded.

You're right, is really says something about our society today and not in a good way.

Quoted from user23.3

There's so much wrong with his post. Blame and compensation culture mixed up with Right Wing views about being overcrowded.

You're right, is really says something about our society today and not in a good way.

This time, I agree with you 100%.

Quoted from user23.3

There's so much wrong with his post. Blame and compensation culture mixed up with Right Wing views about being overcrowded.

You're right, is really says something about our society today and not in a good way.

And we are not overcrowded...where does that come from TW_t
anyway I always used to play inside right!

Quoted from brian

Sue somebody for compensation and that will reduce the "overcrowding" problem. Good suggestion.

You certainly are a numty...

Quoted from dodgy

You certainly are a numty...

A numpty actually. Not that I'm offended by the word but do object to the Scottish connotations.

Quoted from user23.3

There's so much wrong with his post. Blame and compensation culture mixed up with Right Wing views about being overcrowded.

You're right, is really says something about our society today and not in a good way.

Wow I am agreeing with User again? Must go and have a lie down?    

Quoted from Cognosco

Wow I am agreeing with User again? Must go and have a lie down?    

Traitor!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Traitor!  

Sorry not sure what come over me there? I will have to up my dose of medicine?  

I think you'll find there are certain things that unite us here on this forum... 'dodgy' is one of them.


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

I think you'll find there are certain things that unite us here on this forum... 'dodgy' is one of them.


Threep.

Glad to be of assistance...
Gives you all someone to have a dig at
I'm appy with that!
It's quite entertaining for all you who have nothing constructive to do!
Now what on earth was the thread?

Quoted from dodgy

Glad to be of assistance...
Gives you all someone to have a dig at
I'm appy with that!
It's quite entertaining for all you who have nothing constructive to do!
Now what on earth was the thread?

The more varied the people who post the better to me Doddgy?

I am not doing nothing constructive I am skiving working from home today?

Tell you what dodgy, if you're concerned about overcrowding you could always move abroad.

I hear the South Pole is lovely this time of year and there's none of those pesky people you have trouble relating to.

Quoted from user23.3

Tell you what dodgy, if you're concerned about overcrowding you could always move abroad.

I hear the South Pole is lovely this time of year and there's none of those pesky people you have trouble relating to.

Hasn't the council got planning permission for there yet? They must be slipping? Come on get on top of this User for goodness sake?  

Quoted from dodgy

Someone is to blame, quite obviously, either through neglect or poor workmanship or whatever...and
they should be charged with Manslaughter(or Horseslaughter) as they have killed a living being. There is no excuse and they should be sued for every penny they have! ( I say a life for a life!)

You really do come up with some B*****S sometimes, this was a freak accident and therefore should be treated as one.
As for the other post saying possibly sabotage where did that one come from?  

The logistics of electrocution are fairly simple in that a current flows through the body and in most cases, the rythym of the heart is disturbed by the current flow. That is why it is always good to try to resuscitate a person who has been electrocuted by using chest/heart compression and mouth to mouth to restore breathing.
What may be difficult to understand is that for a current to flow through the body, there must be two points of contact at different voltages. A leaky cable might not cause too much of a problem for a two legged person as the two points of contact tend to be close together. ie the feet and any current flow will not usually pass through the heart. hence the tingling feeling experienced by the handlers. A four legged animal and in this case a horse with nice metal plated feet, with two legs on the wet electrical leakage point at a possible high voltage and the other pair on a place where they will be at earth potential and a hefty current will flow through the body including the heart. I would suspect that the two that died took the full potential and the other two were more fortunate.

I think at some point in time in the early stages there was a suggestion of feed or water poisoning but this was quickly dispelled as was the Tazer theory.

Quoted from brian

The logistics of electrocution are fairly simple in that a current flows through the body and in most cases, the rythym of the heart is disturbed by the current flow. That is why it is always good to try to resuscitate a person who has been electrocuted by using chest/heart compression and mouth to mouth to restore breathing.
What may be difficult to understand is that for a current to flow through the body, there must be two points of contact at different voltages. A leaky cable might not cause too much of a problem for a two legged person as the two points of contact tend to be close together. ie the feet and any current flow will not usually pass through the heart. hence the tingling feeling experienced by the handlers. A four legged animal and in this case a horse with nice metal plated feet, with two legs on the wet electrical leakage point at a possible high voltage and the other pair on a place where they will be at earth potential and a hefty current will flow through the body including the heart. I would suspect that the two that died took the full potential and the other two were more fortunate.

I think at some point in time in the early stages there was a suggestion of feed or water poisoning but this was quickly dispelled as was the Tazer theory.

Todays report says the two horses that were affected but lived were wearing aluminium shoes, while the two horses who died were wearing steel.  Also an owner who touched one of the dying horses and felt an electric charge was seriously ill when their heart went out of sync. A sad day for racing.

Quoted from brian newman

You really do come up with some B*****S sometimes, this was a freak accident and therefore should be treated as one.
As for the other post saying possibly sabotage where did that one come from?  

Nope!

Quoted from Cognosco

The more varied the people who post the better to me Doddgy?

I am not doing nothing constructive I am skiving working from home today?

Pleased to meet you.... I'm only winding them up half the time you know!Most of them bite.. It's fun...

The point here is that 2 horses died, i have heard that someone drilled some holes in the ground, to enable the water to drain and possibky went through a cable, although how they didnt get electrocuted i dont know, i guess its still speculation, BUT i feel SOMEONE DOES have to be held accountable as afterall two horses DIED !!! Poor animals. Sad.

Sad day for the horses and owners, however Newbury Racecourse still ran the first race, thus unabling them to keep the punters entrance money when they cancelled the meet.

Bit underhand I think.

Quoted from I am Spartacus

Sad day for the horses and owners, however Newbury Racecourse still ran the first race, thus unabling them to keep the punters entrance money when they cancelled the meet.

Bit underhand I think.

They're being given a refund.

Quoted from Bumbles

BUT i feel SOMEONE DOES have to be held accountable as afterall two horses DIED !!! Poor animals. Sad

Not necessarily. If it can be proved that someone acted neglegently then there may be a case to answer. But, going with the hole-drilling theory as an example, it's not unreasonable for the person or company/contractor carrying out the work to assume that a grassed paddock would be free from underground electric cables. If a contractor is drilling a paved area in the middle of town then it is obvious that there is a high risk of striking some kind of utility, but at the racecourse, and in a paddock, the chances are minimal. That's the kind of thing that, barring evidence to the contrary, makes this an accident. A great shame, none the less.

Quoted from Bumbles

The point here is that 2 horses died, i have heard that someone drilled some holes in the ground, to enable the water to drain and possibky went through a cable, although how they didnt get electrocuted i dont know, i guess its still speculation, BUT i feel SOMEONE DOES have to be held accountable as afterall two horses DIED !!! Poor animals. Sad.

Three horses died over the weekend in normal racing accidents. No big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Quoted from 26

Three horses died over the weekend in normal racing accidents. No big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I'm afraid I disagree.. It's not  'in the grand scheme of things'..It's manslaughter!
What if the two killed at Newbury were Members of Staff or Jockeys?????????????????
Would your opinion be any different?
What about all you others out there...how would you feel then?

What do you think happens to racehorses that are past it, or which don't make the grade?

Quoted from 78

What do you think happens to racehorses that are past it, or which don't make the grade?

You should have been in Politics...now answer the question!

Quoted from dodgy

I'm afraid I disagree.. It's not  'in the grand scheme of things'..It's manslaughter!
What if the two killed at Newbury were Members of Staff or Jockeys?????????????????
Would your opinion be any different?
What about all you others out there...how would you feel then?

How can two hosres being killed be called "MANslaughter"? You have surpassed yourself with that sentence.

Quoted from Cognosco

Ok you clever tw-t...Horselaughter, it's all the same thing!

Quoted from 26

Three horses died over the weekend in normal racing accidents. No big deal in the grand scheme of things.

YES it IS a big deal actually, it is through human error that 2 horses died, on the same day, at the same place, its not acceptable !!!!

Quoted from Bumbles

YES it IS a big deal actually, it is through human error that 2 horses died, on the same day, at the same place, its not acceptable !!!!

well said

Quoted from jay

Todays report says the two horses that were affected but lived were wearing aluminium shoes, while the two horses who died were wearing steel.  Also an owner who touched one of the dying horses and felt an electric charge was seriously ill when their heart went out of sync. A sad day for racing.

I have to believe that the type of shoe is coincidental. Aluminium is an excellent conductor of electricity, better than steel. I don't know how those shoes are fixed to the hooves however but if they are fixed with an adhesive then that may have acted as an insulator reducing current flow. The sensitive part of the hoof is right in the centre. This part is not covered by a shoe but the wet grass and the horse sinking into the soft ground may have placed that part closer to the source of the electrical leak adding to the conductivity.

I haven't read anywhere about an owner or any other member of the public having anything other than minor tingling. Where did you read that.

Quoted from dodgy

Ok you clever tw-t...Horselaughter, it's all the same thing!

Actually, no it isn't otherwise every racehorse that dies either due to the stress of racing or is put down as surplus to requirements would place people in court every day.
If one takes your argument to the extreme, there would be cowslaughter, pigslaughter and sheepslaughter to add to the list.

It was an unfortunate incident and I'm sure the whole racing fraternity are genuinely sad and upset about it. It wasn't done on purpose, the contractors who tined the grass had no idea that there were cables underground and as the cable had been there for forty years or more, as reported, who could have foreseen that happening. Any cables in your garden running down to the shed.

Quoted from Bumbles

YES it IS a big deal actually, it is through human error that 2 horses died, on the same day, at the same place, its not acceptable !!!!

It is only the circumstances that make it newsworthy. Horses die every week in racing accidents. So it isn't a big deal (other than the circumstances). Less painful than a leg break I'd guess. And no bullets were used.

Quoted from brian

Any cables in your garden running down to the shed.

One can only hope.  

Quoted from dodgy

Ok you clever tw-t...Horselaughter, it's all the same thing!

Nothing to do with me you tw-t? Try pressing the correct buttons?  

Quoted from 26

Horses die every week in racing accidents.

Very true: http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

Before this weekend, 10 Horse have died at Newbury since 13 march 2007.

Quoted from 78

What do you think happens to racehorses that are past it, or which don't make the grade?

Most end up at Grace Muirs HEROS at Fawley and are looked after.

Quoted from Bumbles

YES it IS a big deal actually, it is through human error that 2 horses died, on the same day, at the same place, its not acceptable !!!!

Well said from me too !   When you take your horses to a race meet you don't expect them to be electrocuted .... someone needs to held accountable ! Can you imagine if someones pooch got electrocuted at Crufts .... what would happen then ??

Not sure what I think about the deaths of the horses in racing generally.  The deaths on Saturday were obviously traumatic for those who witnessed them although, from what we know, the animals didn't suffer too much. As Niceguy says, those that are put down following race accidents endure much more pain.  Thankfully those involved in racing who I've heard talking about the incident are rather more controlled that some of the commenters here, saying it was a very unfortunate accident and must not be allowed to happen again.

As I'm not a vegetarian so I would be hypocritical if I had a problem with the 750million animals that are slaughtered for food each year in the UK and we know that many of those have a pretty unpleasant time before they die.  At least race horses have a pretty pampered existence and a lucky few get to go to stud if they make it through their racing careers.

Quoted from 26

One can only hope.  

Nice touch -one!

Not one person has given an answer to my question...see previous thread!!!!!
The one with a question in it before you all jump with joy....whoever she is

Quoted from dodgy

Not one person has given an answer to my question...see previous thread!!!!!
The one with a question in it before you all jump with joy....whoever she is

What's question, re-post it if it matters?

Quoted from dodgy

Not one person has given an answer to my question...see previous thread!!!!!
The one with a question in it before you all jump with joy....whoever she is

Help me out, I can't find a post where you asked a sensible question.

What if the two killed at Newbury were Members of Staff or Jockeys?????????????????
Would your opinion be any different?
There ya go!

where are you all now ay?

Quoted from dodgy

What if the two killed at Newbury were Members of Staff or Jockeys?????????????????
Would your opinion be any different?
There ya go!

No.

Quoted from Greenham Common

No.

You have not given an opinion yet...but it stays the same???????????????????
enlighten me please!

I don't have an opinion other than it is a regrettable incident.

Quoted from dodgy

What if the two killed at Newbury were Members of Staff or Jockeys?????????????????

If my grandmother had a ****, she'd be my grandfather.

Quoted from PaulaM

When you take your horses to a race meet you don't expect them to be electrocuted

Possibly not. But then you do take them on the understanding that they may fall, suffer a painful leg break(s) and need to be shot.

Quoted from PaulaM

.... someone needs to held accountable !

You a Daily Mail reader at all?  

Quoted from PaulaM

Can you imagine if someones pooch got electrocuted at Crufts .... what would happen then ??

Not much I would guess.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Before this weekend, 10 Horse have died at Newbury since 13 march 2007.

So this makes it quite a 'big deal' when two die on the same day, same place, same reason in my view. When so few have (thankfully) died at Newbury in the last few years as stated above.

I was shocked and very upset by the news and although the horses may not have suffered LONG, they DID suffer through human error and in MY opinion, just ONE second of PAIN, UPSET, DISTRESS to those poor horses, in one second TOO MANY !!! May they RIP and i can only hope this type of error will NEVER occur again.

Someone quoted that it took around 30 seconds for the horse to die.

Quoted from brian newman

Most end up at Grace Muirs HEROS at Fawley and are looked after.

A quick browse of her website shows since the 1990s she has rehomed 300 thoroughbred horses.

About 5000 racehorses are retired each year.

Quoted from brian

Help me out, I can't find a post where you asked a sensible question.

should have gone to specsav--s!

Quoted from Greenham Common

I don't have an opinion other than it is a regrettable incident.

So you are sitting on the Valentines Brook, The Chair, Thorn fence,Beeches Brook, Foinavon Fence!

Quoted from 26

If my grandmother had a ****, she'd be my grandfather.

wrong!!! Think b4 you print!

Quoted from 26

If my grandmother had a ****, she'd be my grandfather.

Very 'mature' on a post thats actually serious for some of us and regarding a distressing incident !!

Quoted from dodgy

So you are sitting on the Valentines Brook, The Chair, Thorn fence,Beeches Brook, Foinavon Fence!

What opinion am I meant to have?  What are the options?

Quoted from Bumbles

Very 'mature' on a post thats actually serious for some of us and regarding a distressing incident !!

Ever heard of a sense of perspective.

Quoted from Greenham Common

What opinion am I meant to have?  What are the options?

I don't think I can help you there.. nope..forget it!

Quoted from 26

Ever heard of a sense of perspective.

All that interests me is that the people who have caused this awful incident, resulting in TWO horses dying, learn by their mistakes. i am not interested in 'petty, childish bickering'. The POINT is ........ the racecourse MUST learn and MUST never allow this to happen again, the point isnt to score points against forum members (for me anyway, so you carry on, but with someone else).

Quoted from Bumbles

All that interests me is that the people who have caused this awful incident, resulting in TWO horses dying, learn by their mistakes. i am not interested in 'petty, childish bickering'. The POINT is ........ the racecourse MUST learn and MUST never allow this to happen again, the point isnt to score points against forum members (for me anyway, so you carry on, but with someone else).

Well earlier you said that whoever is responsible should be held "ACCOUNTABLE". I think it unlikely that this would happen again as it was a freak accident. In the meantime however, hundreds of racehorses will die every year in racing accidents.

According to the video here, 370 die every year. http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL///

I am an animal lover and I'm sure I would have been upset if I witnessed this, but when viewed in the above context, what happened was insignificant.

Quoted from 26

Well earlier you said that whoever is responsible should be held "ACCOUNTABLE". I think it unlikely that this would happen again as it was a freak accident. In the meantime however, hundreds of racehorses will die every year in racing accidents.

According to the video here, 370 die every year. http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL///

I am an animal lover and I'm sure I would have been upset if I witnessed this, but when viewed in the above context, what happened was insignificant.

I still believe someone should be held accountable and i am sure the owners of the horses will feel the same. I just find the word 'insignificant' when talking about two horses dying, a bit 'cold/hard' but anyway. The world is made up of different opinions and events in this world make people feel different, for me this incident is just unforgivable and distressing.

Quoted from Bumbles

I still believe someone should be held accountable and i am sure the owners of the horses will feel the same. I just find the word 'insignificant' when talking about two horses dying, a bit 'cold/hard' but anyway. The world is made up of different opinions and events in this world make people feel different, for me this incident is just unforgivable and distressing.

We all need to be accountable for our actions but this cable appears to have been under the ground for forty years and when it was installed it may have been correctly installed according to the current regulations. The chance of pinning the installation on an individual then is slim or impossible.
The guys who were tining the parade ring are the persons that punctured the cable if that is what happened but they were only doing a job and had no knowledge of the cable being live under their feet.
There are instances of digger drivers and hole diggers all over the country cutting into and through cables because the authorities were unaware of their existence or route. I would suggest the racecourse operators would have the same problem. Now if the cable was recently installed and the installation didn't meet todays standards then there would be a case to answer.
So, an unfortunate and chance in a million accident. You can bet that the racecourse owners are upset about the whole thing but because of the episode and not the financial implications. They, the racecourse, carry insurance so if there was negligence, which I doubt, then the insurance company would stand the cost.

Sorry that two horses died, that's for sure but I don't know what sort of blood you want. An apology, a public whipping or perhaps all the staff doing six months in prison.

To answer Dodgy's silly question about how I would feel if it were two people that died, yes it would matter more but it would still be an unfortunate accident. I therefore don't change what I have already said, horse or person. It is distressing but beautiful as they are, they are animals and we do need to get this in perspective. We've aleady had an RIP so perhaps someone needs to send their condolences.

Quoted from brian

We all need to be accountable for our actions but this cable appears to have been under the ground for forty years and when it was installed it may have been correctly installed according to the current regulations. The chance of pinning the installation on an individual then is slim or impossible.
The guys who were tining the parade ring are the persons that punctured the cable if that is what happened but they were only doing a job and had no knowledge of the cable being live under their feet.
There are instances of digger drivers and hole diggers all over the country cutting into and through cables because the authorities were unaware of their existence or route. I would suggest the racecourse operators would have the same problem. Now if the cable was recently installed and the installation didn't meet todays standards then there would be a case to answer.
So, an unfortunate and chance in a million accident. You can bet that the racecourse owners are upset about the whole thing but because of the episode and not the financial implications. They, the racecourse, carry insurance so if there was negligence, which I doubt, then the insurance company would stand the cost.

Sorry that two horses died, that's for sure but I don't know what sort of blood you want. An apology, a public whipping or perhaps all the staff doing six months in prison.

To answer Dodgy's silly question about how I would feel if it were two people that died, yes it would matter more but it would still be an unfortunate accident. I therefore don't change what I have already said, horse or person. It is distressing but beautiful as they are, they are animals and we do need to get this in perspective. We've aleady had an RIP so perhaps someone needs to send their condolences.

Well I've given my opinion, thats all i can do. There are always people who differ of course, thats life. I dont want any sort of blood, staff doing 6 months in prison, why is it that we have to resort to stupid comments like this? Anyway ........ time to move on.

Quoted from Bumbles

Anyway ........ time to move on.

Now there I do agree with you but just go back and read some of the hysterical posting in this thread.

Quoted from brian

Now there I do agree with you but just go back and read some of the hysterical posting in this thread.

Oh some of it has been a bit silly, i agree there.

[quote=9]

but beautiful as they are, they are animals and we do need to get this in perspective.




Are you saying they are only animals so it matters less than if it were people..
Yes you do need to get it in perspective Brian!

Seems to me that Walt Disney and his wretched anthropomorphism has an awful lot to answer for.


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

Seems to me that Walt Disney and his wretched anthropomorphism has an awful lot to answer for.


Threep.

What on earth is an anthropomorphism ?? or is it me ??

Quoted from PaulaM

What on earth is an anthropomorphism ?? or is it me ??

Assiging human characteristics to animals.

One aspect of the incident that hasn't been coverd is that the reason there were two horses killed was that the first was viewed as a commonplace heart attack - the sort of thing that happens relatively often. It was not until the second died that they realised anything was really wrong.

Whoever the blame was placed upon the cost will be born by insurance companies - dragging it all out with long enquiries, court cases etc just means more money for the insurers to pay out on lawyers, expert witnesses etc etc.  Of course the cause should be determined and measure taken to ensure the incident is not repeated - but, unless there is some evidence of genuine negligence (which doesn't seem likely) it should stop there.

Quoted from Threepwood

Seems to me that Walt Disney and his wretched anthropomorphism has an awful lot to answer for.  Threep.

Why?  The more were learn about animal behaviour, the closer our personalties become.

Quoted from blackdog

...unless there is some evidence of genuine negligence (which doesn't seem likely) it should stop there.

Unless it was deliberate, how could it not be through negligence?  The evidence is in front of us.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Unless it was deliberate, how could it not be through negligence?  The evidence is in front of us.

[accident dictionary definition] an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap

If no-one is aware of a 'leccy cable and someone is told, 'go make a few holes in the ground to help the water drain away'....sounds like an accident to me.


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

If no-one is aware of a 'leccy cable and someone is told, 'go make a few holes in the ground to help the water drain away'....sounds like an accident to me.


Threep.

Someone, somewhere should have known it was there.. H & S and all that!

Quoted from jay

[accident dictionary definition] an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap

Quoted from Threepwood

If no-one is aware of a 'leccy cable and someone is told, 'go make a few holes in the ground to help the water drain away'....sounds like an accident to me. Threep.

If someone is asked to decommission a cable or supply and doesn't, is that not negligence?  If someone doesn't lay a cable deep enough, or without sufficient protection, is that not negligence?  If someone lays a cable that has a 'MTBF' which is either wrong, or not acknowledged, is that not negligence?  Not knowing the cable is there, is that not negligence?


negligence

–noun
1. the quality, fact, or result of being negligent;  neglect: negligence in discharging one's responsibilities.
2. an instance of being negligent: a downfall brought about by many negligences.
3. Law . the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care.

–adjective
4. Law . pertaining to or involving a civil action for compensation for damages filed by a person who claims to have suffered an injury or loss in an accident caused by another's negligence: a negligence suit; a large negligence award.


neglect

–verb (used with object)
1. to pay no attention or too little attention to; disregard or slight: The public neglected his genius for many years.
2. to be remiss in the care or treatment of: to neglect one's family; to neglect one's appearance.
3. to omit, through indifference or carelessness: to neglect to reply to an invitation.
4. to fail to carry out or perform (orders, duties, etc.): to neglect the household chores.
5. to fail to take or use: to neglect no precaution.

–noun
6. an act or instance of neglecting; disregard; negligence: The neglect of the property was shameful.
7. the fact or state of being neglected: a beauty marred by neglect.

Is this the same area of the racecourse that our M.P. pushed several injured soliders around to highlight their cause ?


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

Is this the same area of the racecourse that our M.P. pushed several injured soliders around to highlight their cause ?  Threep.

Dunno.

[quote=28]
If someone is asked to decommission a cable or supply and doesn't, is that not negligence?  If someone doesn't lay a cable deep enough, or without sufficient protection, is that not negligence?  If someone lays a cable that has a 'MTBF' which is either wrong, or not acknowledged, is that not negligence?  Not knowing the cable is there, is that not negligence?


If the cable (do we yet know if the cable is to blame?), had been laid five days ago or five years ago, you may be right.  This cable was laid under old regulations and would have been 'decommissioned' safely for the regulations that existed at that time.  As for being negligent for not knowing it was there - unless it had a big flag on saying danger how would the groundsmen have known, they would not have been employed there when the cable was decommissioned, neither would their supervisors.  It is the same as if you dig a WW2 bomb up in your garden.  Would not knowing it was there be negligence?

Quoted from jay

If the cable (do we yet know if the cable is to blame?)

Not officially.

Quoted from jay

had been laid five days ago or five years ago, you may be right.  This cable was laid under old regulations and would have been 'decommissioned' safely for the regulations that existed at that time.

Decommissioned means to be taken out of service.  No electricity goes along it.  It also means to be made safe, that is, it would be a deliberate act to re-use it.

Quoted from jay

As for being negligent for not knowing it was there - unless it had a big flag on saying danger how would the groundsmen have known, they would not have been employed there when the cable was decommissioned, neither would their supervisors.

This cable would have two end points, what is clearer than that?  It means if someone recommissioned the cable, they did neglecting to find out where it goes and in what condition it is in.  Especially as knowing it might be old it might fail the then current regulations.

Quoted from jay

It is the same as if you dig a WW2 bomb up in your garden.  Would not knowing it was there be negligence?

The previous owners might have neglected to tell the new owners that the house was bombed.  Or when it was bombed, someone neglected to clear the area before rehousing people.

If this is man made, then negligence exists somewhere.  It doesn't mean the current owners are necessarily to blame either.

If it does turn out to be an old cable then the cable cannot have been decommissioned - it had power flowing down it.

This raises several questions.

Quoted from dodgy

Are you saying they are only animals so it matters less than if it were people..
Yes you do need to get it in perspective Brian!

Absolutely and I'm sure you know that it matters less. If you really believe that animals are as important as humans, can I take it that you are a vegetarian.

I can't believe how you and others are milking this with claims of negligence and similar.

It was an accidental electrocution, the insurance companies will sort it out with the legal boys, time to let it go boys and girls.

Quoted from brian

I can't believe how you and others are milking this with claims of negligence and similar.  It was an accidental electrocution, the insurance companies will sort it out with the legal boys, time to let it go boys and girls.

It was an accident (I hope), an accident born out of negligence (somewhere along the line).

[quote=9]
. If you really believe that animals are as important as humans, can I take it that you are a vegetarian.

/quote]
Yes, I do believe an animal has just as much right to live, and no I am not a vegetarian.
I spose you think that's a contradiction.. well go on then lay in...

The cable was man made, presumably...and put there by workers who would have been working to drawings.. So somewhere there are the plans of the line.. which obviously no one has checked lately.. all too much!  No it was not an accident, it was man made negligence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoted from dodgy

Yes, I do believe an animal has just as much right to live, and no I am not a vegetarian.
I spose you think that's a contradiction.. well go on then lay in...

Same here and I was told not to 'play' with my food!  

Seven pages of website hand-wringing over some bledy nags that got zapped...! jeez... It was an accident but it was only some horses. The owners aren't all as upset as they may say they are in public... One of the horses (The Merry Giant) was supposedly in a 'very bad way' after being zapped but the owners still made him enter the first race... (he trailed in sixth out of the seven eventual runners and that was after being given the whip!)   Greed over welfare...

To some owners/trainers/jockeys the horses are no more than a means of getting from starting post to finish post.  Like a racing driver with a rubbish car, if it doesn't do the job it'll be sent to the scrappy (boneyard)  

Quoted from spartacus

Seven pages of website hand-wringing over some bledy nags that got zapped...! jeez... It was an accident but it was only some horses. The owners aren't all as upset as they may say they are in public... One of the horses (The Merry Giant) was supposedly in a 'very bad way' after being zapped but the owners still made him enter the first race... (he trailed in sixth out of the seven eventual runners and that was after being given the whip!)   Greed over welfare...

To some owners/trainers/jockeys the horses are no more than a means of getting from starting post to finish post.  Like a racing driver with a rubbish car, if it doesn't do the job it'll be sent to the scrappy (boneyard)  

Attitude Jeremy!

Quoted from spartacus

Seven pages of website hand-wringing over some bledy nags that got zapped...! jeez... It was an accident but it was only some horses. The owners aren't all as upset as they may say they are in public... One of the horses (The Merry Giant) was supposedly in a 'very bad way' after being zapped but the owners still made him enter the first race... (he trailed in sixth out of the seven eventual runners and that was after being given the whip!)   Greed over welfare...

To some owners/trainers/jockeys the horses are no more than a means of getting from starting post to finish post.  Like a racing driver with a rubbish car, if it doesn't do the job it'll be sent to the scrappy (boneyard)  

Because you personally know many owners of racehorses of course !!!

And no, the posts are because MANY of us CARE and were/are upset by this HUMAN MESS UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accidents are cause through a mixture of ignorance and negligence.  This needn't have happened if the electrical system was serviced or maintained properly.

BBC news ticker reports that the death of the horses is confirmed as electrocution. Doesn't offer any more info at the moment.

So...they have decided it was an accident...
I don't think so, I just hope they can live with their consience!
Very blinkered

There is a village somewhere mourning their loss.......










....... of their idiot.

Quoted from dodgy

so...they have decided it was an accident...
I don't think so, I just hope they can live with their consience!

Sporting Life...

Newbury have assured the BHA the parade ring area is now safe for use by horses and humans and that a cable previously located within the parade ring area has been removed and disconnected.

Southern Electric has also confirmed they are satisfied electricity cables within the racecourse are operating normally and within required safety standards at the time of testing.

Professor Tim Morris, director of equine science and welfare for the BHA, said: "The authority has been officially informed that there was leakage of electricity from a cable under the parade ring in the area where the incident occurred.

Quoted from 26

It is only the circumstances that make it newsworthy. Horses die every week in racing accidents. So it isn't a big deal (other than the circumstances). Less painful than a leg break I'd guess. And no bullets were used.

That's OK then!

Quoted from Bumbles

And no, the posts are because MANY of us CARE and were/are upset by this HUMAN MESS UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh grow up and dry your tears... it's getting embarrassing...

Quoted from spartacus

Oh grow up and dry your tears... it's getting embarrassing...

Then watch another channel!

I will.... The Racing Channel tomorrow..!  They'll be showing racing from Newbury... (Organisers are hoping none of the nags will snuff it on the way round)

Blimey...you are a card aren't you
Lets hope your tele doesn't explode and electrocute you..
still as long as it's an accident it don't matter does it? I'm sure
you would be sadly missed though?????????

Attitude Jeremy...  You haven't put a hex on me have you?  If my tele DOES explode now, it surely won't be an accident, it would be man-made negligence!!!!!!!!    I just hope you can live with your (sic) consience!
Very blinkered  





Human death isn't something to be scoffed at however....   Death of an animal other than a family pet is just unfortunate,. It's shouldn't be the stuff of national mourning....  BTW perhaps my hard(ish)-nosed attitude come from my time in the army around 1982, the time of the Hyde Park IRA bombings...  

What do people remember that incident for?  The seven Royal Green Jackets soldiers who were blown up as they played to the public at the bandstand? The four Blues and Royals soldiers who were blown up by a nail bomb as they took part in ceremonial duties?  .......Or was it perhaps the seven horses that died with them....?  Nah, soldiers were dying every week... It wasn't newsworthy... most of the public outcry and national front page press was taken up with the death of the bledy horses.  THAT was the only thing that made Joe Public sit up and take an interest...  

That incident (sadly one of many) was remembered because that was what people saw in the paper - horses lying dead.  I don't think anyone is getting hysterical about Newbury, it was 'only' horses that died - no people - so we cannot get upset about something that didn't happen.

I think as a society we have a strong affinity with dogs and horses, we have been in 'partnership' for a very long time.  They are almost like children to many people.

Quoted from spartacus

What do people remember that incident for?  The seven Royal Green Jackets soldiers who were blown up as they played to the public at the bandstand? The four Blues and Royals soldiers who were blown up by a nail bomb as they took part in ceremonial duties?  .......Or was it perhaps the seven horses that died with them....?  Nah, soldiers were dying every week... It wasn't newsworthy... most of the public outcry and national front page press was taken up with the death of the bledy horses.  THAT was the only thing that made Joe Public sit up and take an interest...  

Spartacus, this thought occurred to me. People remember Sefton, not the troopers that died. It was my brother's troop that died that day. By chance, he transferred that day to the regimental police and so lived, although he was one of the first on the scene after the bomb went off.

I was a student on holiday at the time and remember it like yesterday. Myself and my dad spent hours fearing the worst (it was before mobile phones) before my brother called to say he was ok.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know who my brother is.

Quoted from spartacus

Oh grow up and dry your tears... it's getting embarrassing...

How sad - go back to school before you get expelled sweatheart

Quoted from spartacus

I will.... The Racing Channel tomorrow..!  They'll be showing racing from Newbury... (Organisers are hoping none of the nags will snuff it on the way round)

You are a very sick individual arent you. There are obviously plenty of people who feel as upset by this distressing incident as me. The NWN have written plenty on the subject. I love horses (all animals) and always have, to see the news that day caused me a great deal of upset and also anger that this can happen. For people 'like you' to make the comments you do, shame it wasnt you there with metal shoes on is all i can say !!!!!!!!

Quoted from Bumbles

You are a very sick individual arent you. There are obviously plenty of people who feel as upset by this distressing incident as me. The NWN have written plenty on the subject. I love horses (all animals) and always have, to see the news that day caused me a great deal of upset and also anger that this can happen. For people 'like you' to make the comments you do, shame it wasnt you there with metal shoes on is all i can say !!!!!!!!

I'll drink to that!

Quoted from dodgy

I'll drink to that!

and me !

Quoted from Bumbles

You are a very sick individual arent you. There are obviously plenty of people who feel as upset by this distressing incident as me. The NWN have written plenty on the subject. I love horses (all animals) and always have, to see the news that day caused me a great deal of upset and also anger that this can happen. For people 'like you' to make the comments you do, shame it wasnt you there with metal shoes on is all i can say !!!!!!!!

Bumbles, while I appreciate your feeling are genuine, you really do not help your cause by wanting a poster with an opposing view electrocuted.  You are in danger of coming across as a bit hysterical and irrational.

Unsure what it says about our society when we we have pages on two dead horses and not one comment on the elderly dying of thirst and worse on NHS hospital wards which has been one of the top stories in the media this week.

Quoted from jay

Unsure what it says about our society when we we have pages on two dead horses and not one comment on the elderly dying of thirst and worse on NHS hospital wards which has been one of the top stories in the media this week.

Because this is Newbury news items.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Because this is Newbury news items.

Exactly

And i dont feel i am coming accross as hysterical jay, just someone who is very angry and upset, that is all. I have grown up around horses, they are beautiful creatures and i am passionate about them as i am about most animals. They cant speak for themselves, someone has to!

Quoted from Bumbles

shame it wasnt you there with metal shoes on is all i can say !!!!!!!!

Nutjob.

Some people actually prefer animals to humans.

Quoted from PaulaM

Some people actually prefer animals to humans.

And i cant blame them

I think a tactical withdrawal from this thread is called for here.... it seems I've stirred up some of the more sensitive indigenous folk of this racing town....  

Suffice to say that my views are not shared by Bumbles, dodgy and co....but that's part of what this forum is about innit....  It was a newsworthy item and it happened in Newbury.  But (in my opinion  ) it didn't warrant the stringing up, or loss of job, of those deemed to be guilty of zapping the creatures....


As for getting zapped myself, I'll probably have to think of removing my Blakies next time I go to the racecourse... Those little metal bits that make me clip-clop to the bookies to donate my cash to their Mercedes funds will probably be the death of me now that bumbles has hexed me...  


One last thought...has anyone tasted horse meat... ? (presumably dodgy hasn't KNOWINGLY done so, but a dodgy burger from Lidl? you never know... )  I've had it a number of times in Belgium and it's quite delicious.  I also (unknowingly) had it in Japan on a corporate visit where we were being dined daily on a diet of all things slimy from the sea... On one occasion we were given raw minced meat and I committed myself to trying some before I gave it a second thought (because it was 'proper meat')  I also took too large a lump and with much nodding and smiling from the hosts spent the next ten minutes trying to force the stuff down my gullet.  If you're offered basashi next time you visit the land of the cherry blossom, try to politely decline.. Raw horse meat is not pleasant even when washed down with copious amounts of sake..   bleurgh!      


(And Eddie, it's good to hear that your brother avoided the attention of the IRA.  I can only imagine the distress you went through at the time. I wasn't cavalry. I was serving out in Armagh at the time of the atrocity and I remember we were rather upset that the papers were having pages devoted to the care of Sefton with scant regard for the poor sods in hospital coping with the terrible injuries they had. Still that's the way of the world I s'pose)

On that note I'm off....

Quoted from Bumbles

And i dont feel i am coming accross as hysterical...

You are though.

Quoted from PaulaM

Some people actually prefer animals to humans.

I believe the prevailing theory amongst psychologists is that they often tend to be insular neurotics with poor or limited social skills and low self-esteem. But I'm sure they'd think differently.

Funny how nasty they can get though if you either disagree with them or suggest that maybe all living things do not warrant or deserve rights.


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

I believe the prevailing theory amongst psychologists is that they often tend to be insular neurotics with poor or limited social skills and low self-esteem. But I'm sure they'd think differently.

Funny how nasty they can get though if you either disagree with them or suggest that maybe all living things do not warrant or deserve rights.


Threep.

Mmmmmm My Cat vs User ............. close call !  

Quoted from spartacus

I think a tactical withdrawal from this thread is called for here.... it seems I've stirred up some of the more sensitive indigenous folk of this racing town....  

Suffice to say that my views are not shared by Bumbles, dodgy and co....but that's part of what this forum is about innit....  It was a newsworthy item and it happened in Newbury.  But (in my opinion  ) it didn't warrant the stringing up, or loss of job, of those deemed to be guilty of zapping the creatures....

I'm not sure anyone was say it did, although if someone was responsible for actions taken recently, then I say they do deserve the sack; in the vent they breached H&S rules.

Quoted from Threepwood

I believe the prevailing theory amongst psychologists is that they often tend to be insular neurotics with poor or limited social skills and low self-esteem.

And if that is the case, what of it.  The tone of your post suggests you are taking this opportunity to belittle those that might have a certain outlook that they might not be able to help.

Quoted from Threepwood

Funny how nasty they can get though if you either disagree with them or suggest that maybe all living things do not warrant or deserve rights.  Threep.

Saying nasty things in the heat of debate shouldn't be taken so seriously, although I did think the comment was inappropriate.  Although, the person was baited in my view.

Quoted from Greenham Common

... might have a certain outlook that they might not be able to help.

Clearly.

Quoted from Greenham Common

.. although I did think the comment was inappropriate.

Fair enough.


Threep.

The best thing to do is 'rise above' any silly comments and stick to the subject = two dead horses, someone needs to investigate (which has been done) and for it to never happen again. And again, my thoughts are with the owners.

Quoted from Bumbles

And again, my thoughts are with the owners.

... who are probably laughing all the way to the bank.

Quoted from dodgy

Someone is to blame, quite obviously, either through neglect or poor workmanship or whatever...and
they should be charged with Manslaughter(or Horseslaughter) as they have killed a living being. There is no excuse and they should be sued for every penny they have! ( I say a life for a life!)

As unpopular as it seems to be, I agree with you. The news seems to say now that it wasn't anyone's fault but if it is then there should be consequences for them.