Wharf Street in Newbury remains cordoned off this morning after two people were taken to hospital, following a stabbing near the Hogs Head public house. The stabbing is alleged to have taken place at approximately 3.00am this morning (Saturday) as late night revellers were making their way to the new taxi rank in the Wharf.

Earlier on Friday evening, taxi drivers organised a protest demonstration through the streets of Newbury, because they were concerned about
the problems of the newly positioned taxi rank. One of the reasons for their concern was the safety of the public as they made their way through the poorly lit streets to the Wharf.

The police were forced to return the taxi rank back to the Market Place, as a temporary measure to clear the crowds of onlookers who were leaving late night venues.

At a meeting in the Town Hall on Friday afternoon, West Berkshire Council were advised that there was no logical reason for the taxis being banned from their original rank in the Market Place between the hours of of 5.00pm and 8.00am. The taxi drivers were advised that their request for reinstatement would not even be reconsidered for at least six months.

Quoted from Administrator

At a meeting in the Town Hall on Friday afternoon, West Berkshire Council were advised that there was no logical reason for the taxis being banned from their original rank in the Market Place between the hours of of 5.00pm and 8.00am. The taxi drivers were advised that their request for reinstatement would not even be reconsidered for at least six months.

Another stupid decision taken by West Berkshire Council without any public consultation, or if there was I don't remember anything about it.

The Market Place is the obvious place for the taxi rank.

This was brought up at the Newbury Retailers meetimg at least 6+ months ago and a representative of WBC and the taxi association were there.

Everbody without exception thought removing the taxis from the market place was a bad idea. No body expected a stabbing, however we all thought the potential congestion and bad lighting could cause trouble. Obviously, the exception was the WBC member. In addition, the councillors there also kept very silent.

Spartacus, I only copied your name as I thought others would say "no I am Spartacus etc" as per the film. If it causes you a problem I will change my name.

The Wharf is not ideal for a rank really, is there any CCTV down there? Will take a look later.

OK, from speaking to cab drivers in this morning:

Over 40 cabs took part in the protest last night about the siting of the ranks and the safety issues they cause.
Ten police officers were in the market place, and the rumour is that a number of drivers were given penalty notices for various things.
The cab drivers say the CCTV in the Wharf area is not working, so groups of people heading to the wharf rank are clashing on the way to cabs and there have been no safety measures inplemented since the rank moved.
The post office rank is causing traffic disruption because cabs are lining up around the corner to pick up passengers in what is now regarded as the best place to pick up in the evenings.
Apparently this is not the first incident to take place, and if it had not have involved stabbings would have probably gone unreported.
If ten officers can be in the market place to intimidate cab drivers protesting, why are there no officers in the Wharf area / Market Place at 3am (kicking out time)?

The council need to take swift action to prevent further incidents, and if that means returning cabs to the Market Place this evening until proper safety measure are in place, that is what should be done.

Following the information I have received, this is the press release I have put out from the Labour Party regarding what was a manifesto issue:

Richard Garvie, Newbury Labour Party:

"It is with great regret that two members of the public were stabbed in Newbury in the early hours of Saturday morning. It appears that this incident has taken place on the way to the taxi rank, which was recently moved to "The Wharf" area against the wishes and advice of local cab driver, the public and other interested parties. The new rank has a number of difficulties, such as poor lighting and a very narrow entrance from the Market Place, which effectively tunnels groups of people into the Wharf and confines a lot of people into such a small area.

As a matter of urgency, I think we need to see the reports that were done before moving the rank to establish what risks were identified, what actions were put into place to prevent incidents taking place and what advice the council received from the Police on the matter. With regards to reports that this area of Newbury Town Centre is not covered by CCTV, if that is the case the rank needs to go back to the Market Place immediately until CCTV is in place. The police and the council have a responsibility to protect the public, and by sending people into a dark, unmonitored area of the town centre, there are all sorts of potential outcomes that we just do not want to think about."

On a separate issue, Mr Garvie also hit out at police for targeting taxi drivers during a 5pm protest yet seemingly failing to patrol the new taxi rank. "It just doesn't make sense to me, and I'm sure others will feel the same. Why send ten officers to monitor a peaceful protest from taxi drivers yet not cover an already identified risk area? Were officers taken away from the early hours to provide cover the previous afternoon? These are pretty serious questions that I'm sure will be thought by everyone else".

Newbury Labour Party fully support local taxi drivers in their efforts to move the main taxi rank back into the Market Place. Labour Spokesman Richard Garvie also asked numerous questions about taxi arrangements prior to the local elections in May 2011, leading to provision of a Market Place rank being included within the Labour Party manifesto.

To me it looks like Newbury Retail Association (in the link below) and the Labour Party (in this thread) are using a stabbing reportedly outside the Hogshead in the Market Place to further their causes and/or get their names in the paper.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=18360

Quoted from user23.3

To me it looks like Newbury Retail Association (in the link below) and the Labour Party (in this thread) are using a stabbing reportedly outside the Hogshead in the Market Place to further their causes and/or get their names in the paper.

To me, it looks like you are using this story to try and shame the NRA and NLP.

Quoted from user23.3

To me it looks like Newbury Retail Association (in the link below) and the Labour Party (in this thread) are using a stabbing reportedly outside the Hogshead in the Market Place to further their causes and/or get their names in the paper.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=18360

Well user23, I suppose you are correct. But can you see any logical reason for the taxi rank to be banished to the Wharf outside the pedestrianised hours?

Your beloved superiors have decided it would be nice to have a clear area in the Market Place to encourage the alfresco trade for next summer.

We will never know if the stabbings would have taken place if the taxi rank had remained in the Market Place. What we do know is that once again you are trying to deflect attention away from irrational decisions taken by your employers.

Quoted from Greenham Common

To me, it looks like you are using this story to try and shame the NRA and NLP.

To you not think it a tad shameful that some seem to be trying to get free publicity on the back of this incident?

Quoted from BrianB

Well user23, I suppose you are correct. But can you see any logical reason for the taxi rank to be banished to the Wharf outside the pedestrianised hours?

Your beloved superiors have decided it would be nice to have a clear area in the Market Place to encourage the alfresco trade for next summer.

We will never know if the stabbings would have taken place if the taxi rank had remained in the Market Place. What we do know is that once again you are trying to deflect attention away from irrational decisions taken by your employers.

I'm not trying to deflect attention, I just think it's not the wisest of moves for the Newbury Retail Association and the Labour Party to be promoting their views on the taxi rank, on the back of two stabbings reportedly in the Market Place.

Quoted from user23.3

To me it looks like Newbury Retail Association (in the link below) and the Labour Party (in this thread) are using a stabbing reportedly outside the Hogshead in the Market Place to further their causes and/or get their names in the paper.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=18360

Try reading that NWN internet news post again. The NRA spokesman, didn't comment on the story other than to state what happened....
quote
According to Brian Burgess, chairman of Newbury Retail association, Wharf Street in Newbury was cordoned off this morning after two people were taken to hospital, following a stabbing near the Hogs Head public house.
unquote
So, how is that furthering his own cause. Getting his name in the paper is a fairly mute point as one would suspect that the NWN had no idea what had happened and asked the person most likely to know what was happening in the town.

Nice deflection though, you're getting really good at it.

Quoted from brian

Try reading that NWN internet news post again. The NRA spokesman, didn't comment on the story other than to state what happened....
quote
According to Brian Burgess, chairman of Newbury Retail association, Wharf Street in Newbury was cordoned off this morning after two people were taken to hospital, following a stabbing near the Hogs Head public house.
unquote
So, how is that furthering his own cause. Getting his name in the paper is a fairly mute point as one would suspect that the NWN had no idea what had happened and asked the person most likely to know what was happening in the town.

Nice deflection though, you're getting really good at it.

You miss the point.

Why's the spokesman commenting on this crime which doesn't seem connected to retail at all, if not to get some free publicity?

I'll not comment on it more as I feel I've made my point. I just find this sort of behaviour in bad taste, that's all.

User, I do not see how you can say that the Labour Party and the NRA are working together.

The NRA pointed this issue out as I stated well over 6+ monthd ago as did the taxi representative, the labour party was not present at this meeting, but WBC and 2 councillors were. The obvious was pointed out by everyone present, yet the WBC representative refused to see the obvious and look what has happened. We now have a problem which we did not have before becuase WBC refused to accept the obvious.

This is not point scoring, people are getting injured and it is easy to resolve, put taxis's back into the market place. If they wait for 6 months how many more people will get injured and lest you forget New Years Eve falls before the 6 month possible review, what problems could we have on that night.  

Quoted from I am Spartacus

User, I do not see how you can say that the Labour Party and the NRA are working together.

I haven't, however you've made a connection between a decision and an incident without any evidence to support the connection between the two.

What doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far is that there's been a taxi rank in the Wharf for years.

You are so predictable User.

IAS - you are right. The risks were pointed out to the council. If it's true there is no CCTV in The Wharf, why ever not? This incident may not have happened at the rank, but by piling everyone through a narrow street into the cab rank is a recipe for disaster.

The rank must be moved back to Market Place as a matter of urgency, as it's a simple matter of public protection. Would you want your wife, mother or daughter going into the wharf alone if there was poor lighting and no CCTV at the same time the clubs kick out? That's why the council / police must act now.

Quoted from user23.3

You miss the point.

Why's the spokesman commenting on this crime which doesn't seem connected to retail at all, if not to get some free publicity?

I'll not comment on it more as I feel I've made my point. I just find this sort of behaviour in bad taste, that's all.

And it is not bad taste to try and defend WBC from criticism when they have made a clearly bad decision - again?  

Quoted from user23.3

You miss the point.

Why's the spokesman commenting on this crime which doesn't seem connected to retail at all, if not to get some free publicity?

I'll not comment on it more as I feel I've made my point. I just find this sort of behaviour in bad taste, that's all.

I passed the story on to the NWN as courtesy because they did not appear to have picked up on the stabbings. I did not expect for one minute that I or the NRA would have been given credit for the story. I expected them to have contacted the police directly, and then written their own version.

Just for the record, it is in the retailers interests to ensure that every opportunity exists for the speedy removal of inebriated individuals from Newbury town centre after they leave the licensed premises. Moving the taxi rank to the Wharf is encouraging them to linger a litle longer, give them more encouragement to cause a disturbance and to foul shop doorways and pavements.

Quoted from richard.garvie

You are so predictable User.

IAS - you are right. The risks were pointed out to the council. If it's true there is no CCTV in The Wharf, why ever not? This incident may not have happened at the rank, but by piling everyone through a narrow street into the cab rank is a recipe for disaster.

The rank must be moved back to Market Street as a matter of urgency, as it's a simple matter of public protection. Would you want your wife, mother or daughter going into the wharf alone if there was poor lighting and no CCTV at the same time the clubs kick out? That's why the council / police must act now.

A taxi rank has been in the Wharf for years, why have you suddenly taken an interest in it?

Quoted from user23.3

A taxi rank has been in the Wharf for years, why have you suddenly taken an interest in it?

Ever since I got involved in local politics last year, it became very clear that nobody wanted the market place rank to be replaced by the holding rank in the wharf. I have been clear all along as far as I stand, and the party even adopted the view that the rank should remain within our manifesto. We invited cab drivers to tell us about the various issues they face, we listened and we decided to support them where we coukld. This basically takes the form of lobbying, because that's all we can do with no elected members.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Ever since I got involved in local politics last year, it became very clear that nobody wanted the market place rank to be replaced by the holding rank in the wharf. I have been clear all along as far as I stand, and the party even adopted the view that the rank should remain within our manifesto. We invited cab drivers to tell us about the various issues they face, we listened and we decided to support them where we coukld. This basically takes the form of lobbying, because that's all we can do with no elected members.

But the taxi rank in the Wharf has been there for much longer than last year without incident, I'm guessing over five years.

Why is it only now you seem to be telling people about the supposed potential danger to their wives, mothers or daughters?

Quoted from user23.3

A taxi rank has been in the Wharf for years, why have you suddenly taken an interest in it?

You need correcting once again user. The area in the Wharf was a feeder rank, where taxis queued awaiting a visual signal that there was a space for them in the official rank in the Market Place. It saved the Market Place from being cluttered up by dozens of taxis. It worked exceptionally well and provided a fair rotation system of fares amongst every legitimate taxi driver/taxi company.

The area in the Wharf was officially designated a rank on October 27th. Have a look at the records when you get to work on Monday.

Quoted from user23.3

A taxi rank has been in the Wharf for years,

The one in the wharf has only been a 'feeder rank' until now

What is more daft though is that the Taxis cannot enter the market place at all now, so the elderly, infirm or handicapped can no longer be collected from the Corn Exchange, or from the market if they've got heavy shopping. or indeed, from anywhere in the 'cafe quarter' during the day. I know the Taxi Association was against the banning of the taxi's, I'm told that the Police were also against it, the local Disability Alliance were certainly against it, as were certain officers at the Council who's job it is to see that the disabled have access to such places. All of these groups made their views known to the Committee in no uncertain terms, yet they've all been ignored.

Any Councillors out there like to come on here and explain themselves?


Threep.

A) Because it was a holding rank before
B) I've only been involved in politics since last ctober, and ever since I have been speaking out on this
C) I never knew there was a rank at The Wharf before I sat down with cabbies to ask them what issues they face. When I went to town and got a cab, I'd always go to the Market Place like the majority of people would. If not, I'd go to the rank near McDonalds.

User, do you think it's right to force cab users to The Wharf when The Market Place is well lit, The Wharf is not and when The Market Place has CCTV, the word is that The Wharf does not?

Simple question, would you let your wife use that rank alone at night when it's dark and (apparently) isn't covered by CCTV?

Quoted from user23.3

I'll not comment on it more as I feel I've made my point. I just find this sort of behaviour in bad taste, that's all.

You were saying?

Quoted from BrianB

You were saying?

Don't give him a get out clause. I want to know if he would let his wife use the new rank with the poor lighting and lack of CCTV at kicking out time.

Quoted from Threepwood

Any Councillors out there like to come on here and explain themselves?


Threep.

Who is the councillor with responsibility for the Taxis and \Market Place. Is it Alan Law who lives in Basildon or David Betts from Purley on Thames. It might be Pamela from Pangbourne if it is part of the vision of course.

Quoted from BrianB

You were saying?

I was referring to the shameless associating of one cause namely taxi ranks with an unrelated incident in this case a stabbing, to get media attention.

Now, anyone who frequents Newbury in the evenings will know the Wharf is probably the most used taxi rank in town, I guess because you could get a cab here before they got to the Market Place and that the burger and kebab vans have been situated here for a while.

It's been this way for years and to suggest it's suddenly not safe for females (which in itself is a bit bizarre) to me seems to be scaremongering for political benefit and demonstrates how out of touch with what actually happens in town some are.

Quoted from user23.3

I was referring to the shameless associating of one cause namely taxi ranks with an unrelated incident in this case a stabbing, to get media attention.

Now, anyone who frequents Newbury in the evenings will know the Wharf is probably the most used taxi rank in town, I guess because you could get a cab here before they got to the Market Place and that the burger and kebab vans have been situated here for a while.

It's been this way for years and to suggest it's suddenly not safe for females (which in itself is a bit bizarre) to me seems to be scaremongering for political benefit and demonstrates how out of touch with what actually happens in town some are.

Or how out of touch the minority / few who run this town are? (who pay your wages!!)

Quoted from richard.garvie

Or how out of touch the minority / few who run this town are? (who pay your wages!!)

Given what I've just posted this makes no sense at all.

Quoted from user23.3

What doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far is that there's been a taxi rank in the Wharf for years.

No there hasn't.  The taxi space in the Wharf was a waiting area for taxis wishing to use the Market Place rank - not a rank itself. Theoretically taxis were not allowed to wait there for a fair - not that that stopped them from taking a fare if one presented itself.

Quoted from blackdog

No there hasn't.  The taxi space in the Wharf was a waiting area for taxis wishing to use the Market Place rank - not a rank itself. Theoretically taxis were not allowed to wait there for a fair - not that that stopped them from taking a fare if one presented itself.

Think I've covered the reality of what actually used to happen in the "waiting area for taxis" in a previous post.

Speaking as a cabbie of 26 yrs [all in Newbury], I have seen night-clubs come and go,e.g. CHARLIES....GATSBIES.....LIQUID......SILKS.....XTREMES....But the main common factor has been.....TAXIS MUST BE AS CLOSE TO THE EXITS AS SAFELY POSSIBLE, in readiness for a mass exodus at closing time,or early finish[fire alarm]....People in a high state of euphoria,through having a good time,alcohol,and the odd argument with girlies need a taxi A.S.A.P.......Its common sense!.....Watch COPS on SKY.....they park their wagons as close to trouble for the same reason.....get them dispersed,get them home, A councillor was quoted as saying "IF IT AINT BROKE,DONT FIX IT", last week about our NORTHBROOK rank[due to the opening of the PARKWAY MALL,and  I think that would apply to the Market Place rank.  Us cabbies foresaw this problem,but were not heeded. I like a nice traffic-free square in the day-time ,but its a different animal at night.

Turns out this incident was outside the Hogshead in the Market Place.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=18360

Quoted from user23.3

Turns out this incident was outside the Hogshead in the Market Place.
.....

If you had read the initial post you would have seen it was outside the Hogshead!!

Quoted from MontyP

If you had read the initial post you would have seen it was outside the Hogshead!!

I'm talking about an actual news report based on a statement from the Police.

The original post and title of this thread have been edited by the way.

Quoted from user23.3

The original post and title of this thread have been edited by the way.

Has it?

If you'd read the article on Newbury Sound and the paper when it appeared you would have seen it was outside the Hog's Head as people made their way to the taxi rank.

Are you recognising that the Wharf was only designated as a rank on October 27th as stated by somebody on this thread? You appeared so confident that a rank has been there for years, but what was actually happening is that cabbies were picking up fares from the feeder area, not the main designated rank.

I'm sure our resident Cabbie 'Uncle', can fill in the details, but there seems to be few misconceptions here.

It is the fare that chooses the Cab, That's why it's known as 'plying for hire'. No offence but in the same way as hookers stand around plying their wares, so taxis can be chosen by the hirer. A hirer can walk amongst any group of cabs and choose the one they want. If they (the taxis) are waiting on the 'feeder' it will be the hirer that chooses who they travel with.

In order to avoid the Hackney Wars that have plagued other towns in the past, our drivers have some sort of gentleman's agreement to generally work off the front of the rank. But it is always the 'punters' choice who they go with, who they approach, and who they flag down.

That is how, as 'blackdog' said, they were able to get fares from the feeder. It was the fare that approached them, and that is quite legal.


Threep.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Has it?

If you'd read the article on Newbury Sound and the paper when it appeared you would have seen it was outside the Hog's Head as people made their way to the taxi rank.

Are you recognising that the Wharf was only designated as a rank on October 27th as stated by somebody on this thread? You appeared so confident that a rank has been there for years, but what was actually happening is that cabbies were picking up fares from the feeder area, not the main designated rank.

Whether it was "designated as a rank" or not, in my experience it's been the most popular place to get a taxi in the evening in Newbury for many years.  

Taxi drivers or punters didn't seem to care it wasn't "designated as a rank" and the recent changes seem to bring it in line with what it was being used for, for years.

Quoted from user23.3

Whether it was "designated as a rank" or not, in my experience it's been the most popular place to get a taxi in the evening in Newbury for many years.  

Translated from WBC speak to = "Yeah! but no but Yeah!"  

Quoted from user23.3

I'm talking about an actual news report based on a statement from the Police.

The original post and title of this thread have been edited by the way.

When I read it this morning it said Hogshead.

But I suspect you are using this to discredit those who frequently speak against WBC, as is your usual style!

Quoted from user23.3

Whether it was "designated as a rank" or not, in my experience it's been the most popular place to get a taxi in the evening in Newbury for many years.  

Taxi drivers or punters didn't seem to care it wasn't "designated as a rank" and the recent changes seem to bring it in line with what it was being used for, for years.

So punters used to be able to choose from a plentiful supply of cabs in the Market Place or a plentiful supply in the Wharf.  Now they can wait for one to turn up at the Post Office or go to the Wharf.  Looks like a cut in service to me.  If it made sense I could live with it, as it is there is no sense whatsoever in not allowing cabs to pick up in the Market Place in the evening.  

It's just daft.

Quoted from user23.3

To you not think it a tad shameful that some seem to be trying to get free publicity on the back of this incident?

No more than you trying to hijack the story yourself.  You look like a hypocrite to me.

Quoted from Greenham Common

No more than you trying to hijack the story yourself.  You look like a hypocrite to me.

Which story do you think I am seeking publicity on the back of?

The incident in the Market Place story or the taxi rank in the Wharf story?

Quoted from user23.3

Which story do you think I am seeking publicity on the back of?

The incident in the Market Place story or the taxi rank in the Wharf story?

The "It was WBC stupid decision to ban Taxi's from the Market Place story"

Whenever a critical post of WBC pops up on the forum, usually on a regular basis because of  some of the completley nonsesical decisions they make, up pops User in defence. As he ever made even a slight critical post?

He is as predictable as a clap of thunder after a flash of lightning.

WBC Criticism + User = Inanity  

Hmmm....it can only be that the Supreme Leader has a plan up his sleeve.

Quoted from user23.3

Which story do you think I am seeking publicity on the back of?

The incident in the Market Place story or the taxi rank in the Wharf story?

Using a 'media outlet' and a sensitive subject to further your own agenda; seeking to embarrass the NRA and NLP.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Using a media outlet to further you own agenda; seeking to embarrass the NRA and NLP.

Which media outlet?

I'm not seeking to embarrass anyone, why do you think anyone should be embarrassed?

Quoted from user23.3

Which media outlet?

I'm not seeking to embarrass anyone, why do you think anyone should be embarrassed?

This one, and to answer your second point; you tell me?  (I've edited my previous post by the way).

Quoted from Greenham Common

This one, and to answer your second point; you tell me?

Is this a "media outlet"? It's the forum for a local pressure, isn't it?

You raised the point, I'd like you to explain why you think anyone should be embarrassed.

Quoted from user23.3

Is this a "media outlet"? It's the forum for a local pressure, isn't it?

It is a media outlet.  It how this thread started.  A news item.

Quoted from user23.3

You raised the point, I'd like you to explain why you think anyone should be embarrassed.

As it was clearly the motive behind your post, you are perfectly equipped to answer that yourself.

Quoted from Greenham Common

It is a media outlet.  It how this thread started.  A news item.


As it was clearly the motive behind your post, you are perfectly equipped to answer that yourself.

Nope, it's an opinion piece on the forum of a local pressure group.

Seeing as you're not going justify your claim that I'm a hypocrite I don't see any point in replying to you any more.

Quoted from user23.3

Nope, it's an opinion piece on the forum of a local pressure group.

Seeing as you're not going justify your claim that I'm a hypocrite I don't see any point in replying to you any more.

Well I pointed out that you were a hypocrite on the parking thread and, of course, you conveniently stopped posting!

We all know your style!

Quoted from MontyP

Well I pointed out that you were a hypocrite on the parking thread and, of course, you conveniently stopped posting!

We all know your style!

It didn't read it, however as in the case of the above sometimes it's best just ignore those who post such unsubstantiated abuse.

It only feeds the abusers ego to give them any sort of reaction.

Quoted from user23.3

Nope, it's an opinion piece on the forum of a local pressure group.

I get some of my news here, so it IS a media outlet, whether you like it or not.  It certainly isn't a pressure group, as the forum has never collectively engaged the council.  A bit more user23 spin.

Quoted from user23.3

Seeing as you're not going justify your claim that I'm a hypocrite I don't see any point in replying to you any more.

The justification is evident in your recent posts,  It is already available on this thread.  But just so there is now confusion, you claimed that members from the NRA and NLP were using the regrettable incident in Newbury to further their own agenda (an agenda you have yet to explain), you subsequently did exactly the same thing when you posted your comment on this issue.  Therefore, you are a hypocrite.

Quoted from user23.3

It didn't read it, however as in the case of the above sometimes it's best just ignore those who post such unsubstantiated abuse.

It only feeds the abusers ego to give them any sort of reaction.

I am sure you did read it but it certainly wasn't abuse, I'll repeat the jist of it so you can now reply.

When complaints were made about increases in car park charges you stated the funds were needed for vital services for the needy.  How do you feel about these fund being potential given to SLI / Kennet Shopping?

Now that's not abusive is it??

Quoted from MontyP

I am sure you did read it but it certainly wasn't abuse, I'll repeat the jist of it so you can now reply.

When complaints were made about increases in car park charges you stated the funds were needed for vital services for the needy.  How do you feel about these fund being potential given to SLI / Kennet Shopping?

Now that's not abusive is it??

Depends if it's balanced out or increased by other income from Parkway or related to the improvements to the area.

Quoted from user23.3

Depends if it's balanced out or increased by other income from Parkway or related to the improvements to the area.

I'll take that as your usual WBC wriggle then User!

So User has now admitted that The Wharf HASN'T been a rank for years then? (designated)

The rank needs to go back to the Market Place. In terms of the security risks attached to The Wharf rank, even if the council want to keep it there to assess it's effectiveness, it has to be suspended until suitable CCTV coverage and lighting is in place. Public protection is the duty of the council, and if it's not got suitable lighting or CCTV, it shouldn't be used.

Quoted from richard.garvie

So User has now admitted that The Wharf HASN'T been a rank for years then? (designated)

The rank needs to go back to the Market Place. In terms of the security risks attached to The Wharf rank, even if the council want to keep it there to assess it's effectiveness, it has to be suspended until suitable CCTV coverage and lighting is in place. Public protection is the duty of the council, and if it's not got suitable lighting or CCTV, it shouldn't be used.

Whether it's been designated a rank by some official or not hasn't mattered over the past five years or so.

The Wharf has been treated as a rank by taxi drivers and punters alike over this period.

I'm afraid you're out of touch with us Newbury folk again.

Quoted from user23.3

Whether it's been designated a rank by some official or not hasn't mattered over the past five years or so.

The Wharf has been treated as a rank by taxi drivers and punters alike over this period.

I'm afraid you're out of touch with us Newbury folk again.

Not at all. The majority of people (including the police, cabbies, public) want a secure, well lit rank in the market place to disperse people from the area as quickly as possible. Only you and your mates at the council are fighting it, so who is really out of touch?

Quoted from richard.garvie

Not at all. The majority of people (including the police, cabbies, public) want a secure, well lit rank in the market place to disperse people from the area as quickly as possible. Only you and your mates at the council are fighting it, so who is really out of touch?

The Wharf is well lit though. Have you even been there in the evening?

Often the Market Place rank was empty because people walked round to the Wharf to get a taxi as they'd pick you up here before they got to the Market Place.

Not living, working, or having any connection with Newbury I wouldn't expect you to know this.

Quoted from user23.3

The Wharf is well lit though. Have you even been there in the evening?

Often the Market Place rank was empty because people walked round to the Wharf to get a taxi as they'd pick you up here before they got to the Market Place.

Not living, working, or having any connection with Newbury I wouldn't expect you to know this.

You know nothing about me? I used to work in Newbury on Friday and Saturday nights doing marketing, so I am well up to speed on how the night economy works in Newbury. I also worked as a DJ in the town once upon a time, including doing daily shows on Kick FM. Most people got their cabs in the Market Place, the only people walking to The Wharf are those who wanted to visit the kebab vans.

I've lived in the Newbury area on and off since 2001, you need to check your facts before you make more comments like the above.

PS. Even the police say the area in The Wharf is not well lit. Check the facts User, surely there is documentation online about the police respone to the changes?

Quoted from richard.garvie

..the only people walking to The Wharf are those who wanted to visit the kebab vans.

This is untrue, so lets leave this here.

For many, including those drinking in the Hogshead or Document House the Wharf is the taxi rank of choice and has been for years.

If you have to make things up to support your point I'm not going to bother engaging with you on this.

You have said that The Wharf has been the most popular rank in Newbury for years, THAT IS MAKING THINGS UP!!!

Pot. Kettle. You really make me laugh.

Quoted from user23.3

This is untrue, so lets leave this here.

For many, including those drinking in the Hogshead or Document House the Wharf is the taxi rank of choice and has been for years.

If you have to make things up to support your point I'm not going to bother engaging with you on this.

Oh Oh! Now you've gone and done it Richard. He has gone and thrown his Teddy out of the pram! You will be on the WBC vexatious list now and User will ignore you.  You can always tell when WBC have no argument left we are always left with silence!  

Don't worry too much though he won't be able to ignore you for too long. The Supreme Leader has to have some minion first in line to try and deflect the flack. Keep up the good work, just try to do a tad more homework before posting, and enticing User out to play.  

Quoted from richard.garvie

You have said that The Wharf has been the most popular rank in Newbury for years, THAT IS MAKING THINGS UP!!!

Pot. Kettle. You really make me laugh.

It's my experience.

You can't seriously support the statement "the only people walking to The Wharf are those who wanted to visit the kebab vans".

Would people drinking in Document House walk over to the Market Place rank?

Quoted from user23.3

It's my experience.

You can't seriously support the statement "the only people walking to The Wharf are those who wanted to visit the kebab vans".

Would people drinking in Document House walk over to the Market Place rank?

Not anymore!!! But they did.

If there was CCTV in The Wharf, we could always go back and check  

Quoted from I am Spartacus

Spartacus, I only copied your name as I thought others would say "no I am Spartacus etc" as per the film. If it causes you a problem I will change my name.

Don't you dare... No great shakes... No need to change..

Quoted from Threepwood

I'm sure our resident Cabbie 'Uncle', can fill in the details, but there seems to be few misconceptions here.

It is the fare that chooses the Cab, That's why it's known as 'plying for hire'. No offence but in the same way as hookers stand around plying their wares, so taxis can be chosen by the hirer. A hirer can walk amongst any group of cabs and choose the one they want. If they (the taxis) are waiting on the 'feeder' it will be the hirer that chooses who they travel with.

In order to avoid the Hackney Wars that have plagued other towns in the past, our drivers have some sort of gentleman's agreement to generally work off the front of the rank. But it is always the 'punters' choice who they go with, who they approach, and who they flag down.

That is how, as 'blackdog' said, they were able to get fares from the feeder. It was the fare that approached them, and that is quite legal.


Threep.

"FEEDER RANK"....the clue is in the title!.......its a rank to joe public,and the first cab may be taken,and when possible,we,the cabbies were obliged to move to the main rank when a space became available.

Quoted from Uncle

"FEEDER RANK"....the clue is in the title!.......its a rank to joe public,and the first cab may be taken,and when possible,we,the cabbies were obliged to move to the main rank when a space became available.

I'll bet the Taxi Licensing Officers would probably not agree with that interpretation.... It was a feeder for the Market Place. That figures it wasn't a rank in it's own right.

Quoted from Uncle

"FEEDER RANK"....the clue is in the title!.......its a rank to joe public,and the first cab may be taken,and when possible,we,the cabbies were obliged to move to the main rank when a space became available.

Spot on, it's been thought of a rank by punters for years now, whether it was classified as one or not.

I'd be interested to know whether you got more trade from the Wharf "rank" or the Market Place one.

Quoted from user23.3

Spot on, it's been thought of a rank by punters for years now, whether it was classified as one or not.

I'd be interested to know whether you got more trade from the Wharf "rank" or the Market Place one.

= Please let WBC off the hook!  

rules is rules...and where would we be without them?......

Quoted from spartacus

I'll bet the Taxi Licensing Officers would probably not agree with that interpretation.... It was a feeder for the Market Place. That figures it wasn't a rank in it's own right.

After much consultation,it was agreed long ago that punters could have the first wharf taxi,and so the rank began its life in the wharf,ok?...WBC approved!

Getting back to the thread theme.....if people want to fight to the death over something, they will.....rank or no rank!

Quoted from Uncle

Getting back to the thread theme.....if people want to fight to the death over something, they will.....rank or no rank!

Spot on again. Are all cabbies as sensible as you?

Quoted from user23.3

Spot on again. Are all cabbies as sensible as you?

Sadly,my "sense" on this subject has been earned by watching many incidents and fracas",one I recall from Charlies,when 2 drunk heavyweight gents ended up on my bonnet, till the bouncers[the big ones from 1994/5] came and dragged them off.....its always the same old story next day...sorry officer i cant remember,i was off my face[which is the main reason they drink all night,so they can reach that point where pain and responsibilty are totally lost]......but as in the original post of this thread,the taxis were needed quickly to disperse the crowd of spectators,as required by our policemen, who happen to know a tinderbox situation when they see one.

Quoted from Uncle

Sadly,my "sense" on this subject has been earned by watching many incidents and fracas",one I recall from Charlies,when 2 drunk heavyweight gents ended up on my bonnet, till the bouncers[the big ones from 1994/5] came and dragged them off.....its always the same old story next day...sorry officer i cant remember,i was off my face[which is the main reason they drink all night,so they can reach that point where pain and responsibilty are totally lost]......but as in the original post of this thread,the taxis were needed quickly to disperse the crowd of spectators,as required by our policemen, who happen to know a tinderbox situation when they see one.

Sounds like dispersing people to the Wharf, Post Office and Kennet Centre ranks and not to have everyone waiting at one rank in the Market Place is a good move then.

Quoted from user23.3

Sounds like dispersing people to the Wharf, Post Office and Kennet Centre ranks and not to have everyone waiting at one rank in the Market Place is a good move then.

Not quite... If you read all the reports and OP, you'll see the police moved the rank back into the Market Place to quickly clear the crowds!!! (as the police have always wanted)

Quoted from user23.3

Sounds like dispersing people to the Wharf, Post Office and Kennet Centre ranks and not to have everyone waiting at one rank in the Market Place is a good move then.

Presumably we had the Market Place and the Wharf before. So people were already dispersed. So not really "a good move" as you like to put it.

FACT: Before Liquid closed, the two busiest pick up points were the bus station and Market Place (outside Fever). Police said if it's not broke, why mess with it... Did the council listen?

I'll say it again Phil, the Police moved the rank back into the Market Place on Friday night to disperse the crowds, kind of blows your whole argument out of the water...

Phil???

For User23 (as he has gone quiet):

http://newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=18364

Three men stabbed hours after taxi protest to highlight problems of new rank arrangement

CAMPAIGNERS pushing for the return of the axed Market Place taxi rank have raised fears that an incident of violence outside a Newbury pub on Saturday morning (13) could easily be repeated if cab drivers are not allowed to pick up fares from the area.

Around 40 taxi drivers took part in a demonstration through the town on Friday evening to send a message to West Berkshire Council that the decision to move the Market Place taxi rank to the Wharf would cause problems late at night as well as inconveniencing the elderly and disabled.

Circling the town from Market Place to Bartholomew Street and round to Northbrook Street on Friday from 5pm the drivers caused gridlock until Thames Valley Police closed off Northbrook Street to ease the flow.

Later in the evening, three Thatcham men were stabbed during a fight outside the Hogshead pub in Wharf Street during the early hours of Saturday morning, and taxi driver Bill Annetts said the incident was a sad example of why the drivers held the demonstration.

“Being pushed into the Wharf out of the way... the drinkers of the town have to go down into this narrow poorly lit area,” he said. “It was the taxi trade who told the council that this would happen - we are sorry for all parties involved - but please ask yourself "Would this have happened if taxis were in the Market Place?" I do not think so.”

Another driver, Ashley Vass, added that many of his colleagues were considering not working nights having witnessed the trouble.

The chairman of the association, Andrew Lutter, said he was told by other drivers that following the incident the police told cabbies to go back to the Market Place to help clear the crowds, which went against the new proposals brought in by West Berkshire Council. He warned the council that the demonstration would be the first of many protests carried out by the taxi trade until the rank was restored to the Market Place.

Police attended the incident at 2.50am on Saturday morning and confirmed that a 27-year-old man received a puncture wound to his left bicep, a 25-year-old man received a puncture wound to his lower stomach, and a 22-year-old man received a slight cut and abrasions to his back.

All three men were taken to the Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading and later discharged.

Police made two arrests at the scene of the incident for public order offences and not linked to the stabbing incident.

Quoted from richard.garvie

For User23 (as he has gone quiet):

I've "gone quiet" because I've been at work.

We can't all sit around posting rubbish on the Internet all day, usually I can only do that in the evening.

Quoted from user23.3

I've "gone quiet" because I've been at work.  We can't all sit around posting rubbish on the Internet all day, usually I can only do that in the evening.

We've noticed!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

We've noticed!  

Glad you got the joke.

Quoted from user23.3

Glad you got the joke.

Joke we thought you were serious.  Must have been the first time we all agreed with you!

I'm going to rename Phil as Stealth23!!!

Quoted from richard.garvie

I'm going to rename Phil as Stealth23!!!

I don't think it is right that you should call him Phil. Correct or not, you should respect his anonymity.

Apparently, it was an altercation between Polish and English lads over one of the latter's sisters. They were fairly young.

Not that young, they were in their twenties.

Quoted from brian

I don't think it is right that you should call him Phil. Correct or not, you should respect his anonymity.

Quite right. It's Loser23.  

Quoted from brian

I don't think it is right that you should call him Phil. Correct or not, you should respect his anonymity.

I quite agree. RG is doing himself no favours by trying to make public a forum member's identity. I wonder if this is an approved Labour Party tactic for dealing with those you don't agree with, or if it's just a personal vendetta.

Quoted from brian

I don't think it is right that you should call him Phil. Correct or not, you should respect his anonymity.

Interesting comment. Does he have any anonynity?

It seems odd that the pretence of not knowing who User23 is and what he does continues.

Quoted from massifheed

I quite agree. RG is doing himself no favours by trying to make public a forum member's identity. I wonder if this is an approved Labour Party tactic for dealing with those you don't agree with, or if it's just a personal vendetta.

Viewing the interaction between them, it seems that User23 can attack RG personally (is this a vendetta?) whilst the pretend anonymity User23 uses a shield means that any personal points are deflected.
I don't think either of them are doing themselves or the organisations they represent any credibility with these tactics.

Quoted from Bartholomew

I don't think either of them are doing themselves or the organisations they represent any credibility with these tactics.

Absolutely agree. But I don't ever remember reading a post where User has confirmed either his real name or his occupation. If I were to disagree as bluntly with RG as User does, would it be right for RG to try and reveal my real name and occupation?

Richard can, up to point, post what he wants.

User can, up to a point, post what he / she wants.

It's up to Admin to delete / censor / edit posts.

Admins house - Admins rules. If he's happy for the names to be up then so be it.


Threep.

Quoted from massifheed

Absolutely agree. But I don't ever remember reading a post where User has confirmed either his real name or his occupation. If I were to disagree as bluntly with RG as User does, would it be right for RG to try and reveal my real name and occupation?

My suspicion is that if he isn't the person at WBC that has been named by several posters, the real person would have disagreed publicly by now. I wouldn't want my name associated with some the remarks User23 has made.
It seems to me that User gets what he deserves on this thread. He has at times wanted to know various posters personal details. This along with his occasional aggression and at times insults make him, as far as I am concerned, fair game for anyone who wants to name him.  

Quoted from Threepwood

Admins house - Admins rules. If he's happy for the names to be up then so be it.

Quite. But, any intervention by Admin aside, my point is rather that even though you can do something, should you?

It's clear that BrianB/Admin are hardly best mates with User, so they're probably not going to care less whether RG reveals who he thinks User is or not. So I would have hoped for a bit more restraint from RG, instead of letting User get him worked up enough to resort to trying to "out" him. What purpose does it serve anyway?

Quoted from massifheed

Quite. But, any intervention by Admin aside, my point is rather that even though you can do something, should you?

It's clear that BrianB/Admin are hardly best mates with User, so they're probably not going to care less whether RG reveals who he thinks User is or not. So I would have hoped for a bit more restraint from RG, instead of letting User get him worked up enough to resort to trying to "out" him. What purpose does it serve anyway?

Sorry guys, but it wasn't me who outed him originally. Yes, I've mentioned his names a few times, but not until some pretty nasty stuff he wrote about be that was untrue and unfounded. Anyway, I've apologised to User23 and when I do call him "Phil" it's usually meant in a jokey way to get him to reply on something. If he finds it offensive, I'm sure he would let me know and I'd happily apologise and stop it.

Quoted from Bartholomew

It seems to me that User gets what he deserves on this thread.

I don't particularly disagree with that. But I do think that trying to disclose someone's identity crosses a line. If it's ok just because it's User23, and he get's people's backs up, then where does it become not ok to name other otherwise annonymous forum users?

Obviously, as Threep said, it's Admin's house and Admin's rules, and I do find those that bang on about free speech on what are essentially private forums tiresome. But as I've said previously, what's to stop RG (or anyone) trying to disclose my (or anyone else's) real name and occupation should he/they wish to do so?

There's simply no need for it, in my opinion.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Yes, I've mentioned his names a few times, but not until some pretty nasty stuff he wrote about be that was untrue and unfounded. Anyway, I've apologised to User23 and when I do call him "Phil" it's usually meant in a jokey way to get him to reply on something. If he finds it offensive, I'm sure he would let me know and I'd happily apologise and stop it.

Point taken.

Quoted from Bartholomew

Viewing the interaction between them, it seems that User23 can attack RG personally (is this a vendetta?) whilst the pretend anonymity User23 uses a shield means that any personal points are deflected.
I don't think either of them are doing themselves or the organisations they represent any credibility with these tactics.

I think you're being mischievous here.

I've never said who I am and the views that I post here don't represent any of the organisations I do work for, all opinions are my own.

One way to kill a forum off is to 'Out' some of the members that post.  If that was such an important part then you should be asked to register using your own name as a membership rule from the outset.  Richard has chosen to register in his own name... I'd rather hide behind my PC and post anonimusly anonomuesli without using my name....

If the membership rules change do let us know, so we can delete and move on to doing something more important with our time...

We have always had a fairly harmless tradition of pseudonyms in print. Private Eye (for example) has it's literary gossip 'Bookworm', it's architecture  critic 'Politi', farming expert 'Muckspreader' and it's parliamentary scribe 'Gavel Basher'.

Bernard Levin wrote for the Spectator as 'Taper' (although the work was so good it was pretty obviously Levin). Colin Welch and Michael Wharton wrote as 'Peter Simple' for the Telegraph, not only allowing them greater creativity but also meaning they could take days off without the knowledge of their manager.

More elevated were the noms de plume 'George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans) and 'George Orwell' (Eric Blair). From there you can get to 'Q' (Sir Arthur Quiller-Crouch), and 'Saki' (H.H. Munro). Need I mention Harry Webb, Reg Dwight, Marion Morrison etc etc...

Pseudonymity is, clearly, an acceptable and maybe even a noble condition. Sometimes it has permitted a writer to step outside unreasonable social restraints, particularly in the days when women were not 'meant' to publish their works. Sometimes it has allowed a contracted writer to work elsewhere in order to get the (his) message out.  Columns such as 'Mandrake' in the Telegraph and 'Blackdog' in the Hate on Sunday can be more outspoken and upset powerful figures without losing their sources or getting the journalist writer a P.45.

There is an old joke "who is the most prolific poet in the English language"?..........answer "Anon"

'Anon' may be  anyone from a lowly paid member of a P.R. firm posting great reviews of a stinker of a stage play, right through to a professional rebutter, or a full time lobbyist, maybe in the pay of the tobacco industry, the State if Israel, Monsanto, or even the local council. Certainly 'Anon' is rarely proud of what he / she / they do. But hey, it's a job right?

The possible outing of an 'Anon' is neither here nor there. Freedom of speech should not be reserved only for those with names.

But, Marshall Mcluhan said "the medium is the message" so it is with User's posts. They often defend the indefensible and obfuscate the real story. Now, whether that's his job or not is up to his employers. Had he given out sensitive information or the REAL story then outing him would cause problems, but if he truly was on the side of the Angels then I doubt he'd have been outed in the first place.

As you sow, so ye shall reap. Posting under a false name is a long standing tradition and in some ways a safety device, however, if you get personal and someone then sneaks up behind you and pulls yer pants down, you must expect to hear big laughs. Goes with the territory.

A better game to play would be to try and work out his other identities on this forum and in the other place.


Threep.

Quoted from massifheed

I don't particularly disagree with that. But I do think that trying to disclose someone's identity crosses a line. If it's ok just because it's User23, and he get's people's backs up, then where does it become not ok to name other otherwise annonymous forum users?

.....

I think the issue is when you consistently try and back up the organisation you work for and discredit those who speak against it.

If there was someone on here talking about Vodafone, backing them up and discrediting those that made valid points against its business decisions, I would want to see the "outed" if they were a Vodafone employee!

Just general comments that two other council employees (by their own admission) make, deserves protection of the anonymity!

Ummm Sorry if I hijacked the thread.....That's Users job.

Quoted from brian

Ummm Sorry if I hijacked the thread.....That's Users job.

It's impossible for one person to "hijack" a thread.

You can try but you end up like Conosgno, posting stuff no one reads.

Quoted from user23.3

It's impossible for one person to "hijack" a thread.

Not sure about that. I changed the thread in post no 87 as a sort of defence of your identity. Here we are now twenty or more posts later, the majority of them on that comment I made.
Anyway, why am I telling you this oh master.

Quoted from user23.3

It's impossible for one person to "hijack" a thread.

No, you need some help as well!  

Quoted from user23.3

It's impossible for one person to "hijack" a thread.

You can try but you end up like Conosgno, posting stuff no one reads.

For somebody who has blocked "cognosco", you don't have go on about them!!!

I quite like the name User 23...something rather brave new world about it.

60s sci fi perhaps? Or The Prisoner. Maybe we'll soon see BB scarpering across Wash Common with a giant white ball chasing him!

Act 4 scene 1. In the Green Meanie Interrogation Chamber.

Corporal Jones: "I am number 2"
User23: "Who is number 1?"
Corporal Jones: "You are User 23"
User 23: "I'm not a number, I'm a Website Development Manager."
Supreme Leader (number 1): "ha ha ha ha"

Quoted from Administrator

The police were forced to return the taxi rank back to the Market Place, as a temporary measure to clear the crowds of onlookers who were leaving late night venues.

At a meeting in the Town Hall on Friday afternoon, West Berkshire Council were advised that there was no logical reason for the taxis being banned from their original rank in the Market Place between the hours of of 5.00pm and 8.00am. The taxi drivers were advised that their request for reinstatement would not even be reconsidered for at least six months.

Apparently,to revert to a marketplace rank now would be seen as a climb-down[ or failure ],so the 6 mths must run[perhaps under the guise of a trial],....lets hope no more trouble,then.

Quoted from user23.3

It's impossible for one person to "hijack" a thread.

You can try but you end up like Conosgno, posting stuff no one reads.

I only post because I know you look avidly for my posts praising the wonderful local authorities.  
I am convinced you have managed to make more forum members more aware of how bad our local councils are. With your inane posts trying to deflect the criticism from them and pointless nitpicking. But as they say it's a free world and you do give me entertainment just surprising the Supreme Leader still allows you to post though - but there again not surprising really!