Newbury car parking hike backfires - Print Topic

Taxpayers have again been left counting the cost of West Berkshire Council's decision to ramp up parking charges and hire 20 traffic wardens.

New council figures to be discussed tonight show that district coffers are down £240,000 - contributing to a predicted £1m total overspend by the Tory-run administration.

The attempt to extract more cash from shoppers and visitors to Newbury in a recession has seen Newbury at odds with many other towns and cities, where parking charges have been cut to help local businesses.

Each space in the council's control could generate more than £3000 a year, and the figures show the council is 'down' £270 per space.

It costs £1 an hour to park in Newbury - the same as visiting Festival Place in Basingstoke. Nearby towns like Witney have several free car parks, while Winchester has also increased charges to encourage people to take up the city's park and ride.

What was it the Tories said when they took over in 2005.....something about 'restoring WBC finances'?

Wonder what state the other lot would have us in then

Quoted from Meddler

What was it the Tories said when they took over in 2005.....something about 'restoring WBC finances'? Wonder what state the other lot would have us in then

Makes yer shudder, dunnit?

There hasn't been '20 traffic wardens' for quite some time now. I think there's 15 of them and no more will be employed in the near future to fill the gaps in the team.

Quoted from spartacus

There hasn't been '20 traffic wardens' for quite some time now. I think there's 15 of them and no more will be employed in the near future to fill the gaps in the team.

Newbury does not have any traffic wardens.

It costs £1 an hour to park in Newbury - the same as visiting Festival Place in Basingstoke

is it me or does the tone here suggest that a £1 to park in Newbury is poor value when compared to a £1 to park in Basingstoke?

I believe their correct title is Civil Enforcement Officers. If this is correct it would have made more sense and better value for money to give them more powers such as litter fines, dog fouling, etc. However, as I understand it they cannot even ticket someone for driving through the pedestrian zone.

Even at 15 the number employed is a staggering waste of resources, along with the amount of new parking meters (including 7 for just 52 spaces in Station Road with 3 less than 20 metres apart) to make more areas for them to patrol. 80-90% of the revenue could probably been collected with just 5 or 6 staff rotated around the district.

In theory the number of penalty notices may fall as people as people become more aware of the penalties leading to less revenue and bigger losses if the same staffing levels remain in place.

There were problems with long term parking near the railway station and at Northcroft but these could easily have been resolved by allowing say 3 hours maximum.

A £240,000 deficit with public money should mean someone should lose their job. I am sure that shortfall would not be tolerated in private industry.

It seems to me that the whole parking situation in Newbury did not get the attention it needed when the planners worked out their strategy. I believe they were blinded by the visions of rafts of money coming into the council coffers and failed to think the whole process through from beginning to end. I drove through Bart St and Market St today to get where I wanted to go but mainly to have a look at the cinema. I passed three CEO's all seemingly writing tickets for hapless motorists who had parked incorrectly. Quite right, I hear User saying, but the effect now is that people are afraid to come into town even if they are parking correctly.
This must have a detrimental effect on the town and encourages people to go to the retail parks rather than risk retribution by the very people they pay enormous sums to in rates each year.
The costs of setting up the parking business in West Berks, must have been major just in terms of remarking the spaces, putting up all the signs, buying in ticket machines and buying fancy electronic devices for the Enforcemet officers. I doubt we see that depreciation in the figures, that would have been hived off to some other cost centre including, I suspect, the cost of buying and running the computerised parking management software and hardware (budgetted in the IT dept costs?). On top of that, the running costs are not only the CEOs but there must be an army of administration personnel back at HQ,dealing with the enforcement, answering and deciding on questions of validity of the ticket after a written letter asking for it to be cancelled, and getting names and addresses from DVLA.

"Oh, sod it we're making a loss, how did that happen ? "

Its a difficult one this - because its not straight profit or loss. Apparently many people wanted the irregular parking they thought rife in Newbury sorted out. Our democratically elected Councillors decided that they agreed and something would be done; nothing wrong with that - its their shout. Their officers (the WBC Staff) implemented their wishes and the cost of maintaining Newbury's parking policy is what is now said to be 'a loss'. If the electorate have changed their mind, then they should ask their Councillors to change policy. The only thing wrong with the whole saga was the 'hero' who tried to big up the funding case when the feasibility study was put to the Council. Even then, it should have been blindingly obvious that after a few months, errant parkers would be scared off and that would reduce the take considerably. So to those aking for the Council to do things, be careful, you might get what you asked for!

Quoted from bill b

I believe their correct title is Civil Enforcement Officers (snip) However, as I understand it they cannot even ticket someone for driving through the pedestrian zone.

If you're going to get snooty with semantics let's consider the fact that EVEN POLICE Community Support Officers do not have the powers to ticket someone for "driving through the pedestrian zone". They (the PCSOs) do not have the power to stop any road user for a MOVING traffic offence.

It's craaazee innit, but it's the law....

Quoted from bill b

Even at 15 the number employed is a staggering waste of resources{

Can I just quickly make a small point. This is West BERKSHIRE Council ......NOT NEWBURY Town Council. The 'Traffic Wardens' cover Newbury. Oh hang on.... they also cover Thatcham....

and Hungerford....

and Tilehurst and Theale

and Pangbourne

and Lambourn... let's not forget Lambourn ...and every car park and length of double yellow line in between. They can also now be called to enforce when someone parks across your driveway and blocks you in!! It's a law that has been in place in London for years but has been rolled out across country very recently as it has become apparent that the police have this sort of issue even lower on their list of priorities than delivering birthday cards to siblings... Might be poor value for money for Bill, but for some poor sod living next to a school with parents abandoning cars everywhere or lliving near commuter-ville it's a good addition to the arsenal.

They're also meant to cover the School Keep Clear zig zag markings that are outside every school in the district (nearly 70 of them in total) which parents routinely park on and ignore.....

Quoted from bill b

In theory the number of penalty notices may fall as people as people become more aware of the penalties leading to less revenue and bigger losses if the same staffing levels remain in place.

There should be a factor of diminishing returns here. But just like salmon swimming up rivers to their spawning grounds and ending up in the mouths of bears,,, with parking spaces there's always some other numbnut willing to park in a slot and chance their arm at not getting a ticket......

Quoted from bill b

There were problems with long term parking near the railway station and at Northcroft but these could easily have been resolved by allowing say 3 hours maximum.

Would this 3 hour parking restriction be enforced by those nasty Civil enforcement Officers or would you put it down to goodwill and respect for the law that there would be no need to patrol or ticket offenders?

Quoted from bill b

A £240,000 deficit with public money should mean someone should lose their job. I am sure that shortfall would not be tolerated in private industry.

ermm which district of La-La Land do you live in? Do you not listen to the national news?

Parking restrictions are normally brought in to sort out road safety issues where people are parking and causing a hazard (either for other drivers or pedestrians) or to sort issues related to long term parking (commuters parking for days outside residential properties, or shop workers parking all day in town centres and stopping genuine shoppers getting in to park short term) They are generally brought in at the request of those local residents or local businesses affected by this type of parking.

Trouble is that for decades is been down to the police to enforce ....and in recent years they couldn't give a shoite.... It's led to a 'parking isn't important' attitude. Now that Council's have taken on the role of enforcement it's all suddenly mayhem and drivers being ticketted unfairly (when in truth they've just got away with it for ages.....)

Quoted from 9

.......putting up all the signs.....(snip) .....there must be an army of administration personnel back at HQ,dealing with the enforcement, answering and deciding on questions of validity of the ticket after a written letter asking for it to be cancelled, and getting names and addresses from DVLA.

In most cases the signs have been there for years..... and as for have an army of people to deal with the whiners complaining about being caught "IF YOU CAN'T PAY THE FINE, DON'T DO THE CRIME!" (or summit like that!

Quoted from bill b

A £240,000 deficit with public money should mean someone should lose their job. I am sure that shortfall would not be tolerated in private industry.

Are you sure, how many bankers actually got the sack after losing a lot more?

How many high street retailers reporting losses have lost their jobs?

Are you so sure now?

Quoted from user23.3

Are you sure, how many bankers actually got the sack after losing a lot more?

How many high street retailers reporting losses have lost their jobs?

Are you so sure now?

BBC reports 165000 job assistants lost at Woolworths. All other staff including decision makers also lost their jobs. Same with MFI and Whittards. There are many other smaller companies that have also collapsed and consequently lost their jobs

BBC also reports 3700 job losses from RBS branches. As I recall, the RBS CEO also lost his job.

The fundamental difference is that if a council loses money, it simply increases income from taxation. Councils don't go bankrupt.

Yes I'm sure

Quoted from spartacus

Parking restrictions are normally brought in to sort out road safety issues where people are parking and causing a hazard (either for other drivers or pedestrians) or to sort issues related to long term parking (commuters parking for days outside residential properties, or shop workers parking all day in town centres and stopping genuine shoppers getting in to park short term) They are generally brought in at the request of those local residents or local businesses affected by this type of parking.

Trouble is though that this isn't the case in Newbury. All of the recent restrictions are nothing to do with safety. They are all to do with cinema. Force people to use the car parks so that the cinema can be subsidised, The council claim that it's costing tax payers nothing, but already we can see that in addition to the parking revenue, it's now an additional £240,000.

Quoted from spartacus

In most cases the signs have been there for years.....

They probably have, but most have needed to be replaced because the council have re jigged the spaces. (Bart St and the Railway Station for instance), possibly to improve income but which also included remarking the roads to ensure that they all complied with the parking legislation rules. That's for all of West Berks.

Quoted from spartacus

...... and as for have an army of people to deal with the whiners complaining about being caught "IF YOU CAN'T PAY THE FINE, DON'T DO THE CRIME!" (or summit like that!)

I fail to see why you are thinking that "IF YOU CAN'T PAY THE FINE, DON'T DO THE CRIME!" reduces staff levels at HQ because even if that was on the wall of each parking slot, people would still write in, as is their right, to be let off. Someone has to make the informed decision along with the administration of the system to get the fines notices out to offenders etc.

Apart from the fact that it is easy pickings in the loading and unloading bays, can someone please explain why three of them need to operate all day long in Bartholomew Street South?

Quoted from BrianB

Apart from the fact that it is easy pickings in the loading and unloading bays, can someone please explain why three of them need to operate all day long in Bartholomew Street South?

I think you answered your own question there. There aren't exactly a lot of commercial premises or shops in the area that might need unique commercial parking. Coincidentally, it's where I saw the green guy writing a ticket the other day and as I waited for the traffic, the car owner turned up took the ticket off the screen, glanced at it and drove off.

Again, don't think the parking issue is just about revenue. There is also another problem which proper control of illegal parking seeks to address - smooth running of traffic. Appreciate we are in the middle of a construction site right now but the traffic flow issues are componded by idiotic parking by some. The 'I've only parked on the double yellow for a couple of minutes whilst I buy my paper' brigade - probably add 15 minutes to other people's journey times. Classic example of this is the problem first thing in Shaw Road, outside the shop - where every tradesman in Berkshire stops. They all HAVE to park immediately outside! Keeping Shaw Road one way and Kiln Road a car park.

Quoted from 40

Again, don't think the parking issue is just about revenue. There is also another problem which proper control of illegal parking seeks to address - smooth running of traffic. Appreciate we are in the middle of a construction site right now but the traffic flow issues are componded by idiotic parking by some. The 'I've only parked on the double yellow for a couple of minutes whilst I buy my paper' brigade - probably add 15 minutes to other people's journey times. Classic example of this is the problem first thing in Shaw Road, outside the shop - where every tradesman in Berkshire stops. They all HAVE to park immediately outside! Keeping Shaw Road one way and Kiln Road a car park.

Funny thing is that the location you mention in Shaw Rd hasn't got parking restrictions outside the shop. There is sometimes a problem caused by people who park on the opposite side of the road, facing Hermitage but I'm not sure that newsagent parking to buy the Sun, causes tailbacks in the morning, they are down to volume of traffic, including the school run, and the resultant tailback from the Robin Hood traffic lights. But, it always keeps moving.

Quoted from 9

Funny thing is that the location you mention in Shaw Rd hasn't got parking restrictions outside the shop. There is sometimes a problem caused by people who park on the opposite side of the road, facing Hermitage but I'm not sure that newsagent parking to buy the Sun, causes tailbacks in the morning, they are down to volume of traffic, including the school run, and the resultant tailback from the Robin Hood traffic lights. But, it always keeps moving.

Doesn't need yellow lines there. Parking x feet from a junction, parking with two wheels on the pavement, parking so as to cause an obstruction are all sufficient offences! The traffic would run far more smoothly even at peak periods if it wasn't for these selfish few.

What's wrong with 'the school run' by the way? If we had a half decent public transport system Newbury wouldn't need one. As it hasn't that's the only alternative. I heard a rather radical idea the other day in Brentford of all places - why not 'ban white van man' during peak periods? they can generally travel before and after because appointments are in their hands generally... interesting!

Quoted from 40

Doesn't need yellow lines there. Parking x feet from a junction, parking with two wheels on the pavement, parking so as to cause an obstruction are all sufficient offences! The traffic would run far more smoothly even at peak periods if it wasn't for these selfish few.

You must go down a different Shaw Rd to me. Parking doesn't happen close to the junction, there are traffic lights in the way and I don't see vehicle parked on the pavement.

Quoted from 40

What's wrong with 'the school run' by the way? If we had a half decent public transport system Newbury wouldn't need one. As it hasn't that's the only alternative. I heard a rather radical idea the other day in Brentford of all places - why not 'ban white van man' during peak periods? they can generally travel before and after because appointments are in their hands generally... interesting!

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the school run. Parents need to get their off spring to school and white van man has as much right as anybody to be on the road. He has a living to earn.

Quoted Text

I don't see vehicle parked on the pavement.

Shaw Road terraced properties have nowhere else to park apart from on-street.  In the evenings/early mornings the layby is completely full and residents park on the opposite side of the road (nose to tail).  Half on, half off the footpath - which is a shared cyclepath.  These vehicles obstruct the pavement and make it difficult for cyclists and pedestrians to get past.  The Council should introduce yellow lines here.

The problem is that through the standard consultation process they have to advertise any plans to bring in parking restrictions for 21 days.  If they get objections then they may have to reconsider.  I would assume that EVERY resident of Shaw Road would strongly object to bringing in yellow lines to stop them parking in 'their' road.

Result?  Nothing happens because the Council probably don't think it's worth over-ruling these objections.

Quoted from spartacus

Shaw Road terraced properties have nowhere else to park apart from on-street.  In the evenings/early mornings the layby is completely full and residents park on the opposite side of the road (nose to tail).  Half on, half off the footpath - which is a shared cyclepath.  These vehicles obstruct the pavement and make it difficult for cyclists and pedestrians to get past.  The Council should introduce yellow lines here.

The problem is that through the standard consultation process they have to advertise any plans to bring in parking restrictions for 21 days.  If they get objections then they may have to reconsider.  I would assume that EVERY resident of Shaw Road would strongly object to bringing in yellow lines to stop them parking in 'their' road.

Result?  Nothing happens because the Council probably don't think it's worth over-ruling these objections.

Now there I do agree with you, but that is not casual paper buyers but residents or possibly their visitors, parking opposite the Terrace and this is a dangerous situation both for traffic trying to get past when they block the sight line and also when they restrict the footpath by sticking their wheels up on the pavement.
There was an accident a couple of days ago with two or three cars side swiping each other as they tried to pass in iopposite directions because, I think, a car was parked up on the pavement but blocking the road.

Quoted from 9

Now there I do agree with you, but that is not casual paper buyers but residents or possibly their visitors, parking opposite the Terrace and this is a dangerous situation both for traffic trying to get past when they block the sight line and also when they restrict the footpath by sticking their wheels up on the pavement.
There was an accident a couple of days ago with two or three cars side swiping each other as they tried to pass in iopposite directions because, I think, a car was parked up on the pavement but blocking the road.

The casual paper buyer makes a bad situation ten times worse. There is no reason why these people couldn't park properly and walk a few feet for their paper. Some people seem to think they should have been born attached to wheels - so once they have a car or a bike, no longer need the use of their legs. Another incident, I'm minded to mention to the Taxi office - a couple of days back, mid afternoon, a taxi parked as close at it could get to the kebab shop in market place. Driver (who's size didn't suggest he needed it in a hurry) came out with a large kebab, jumped in cab and drove off. Irresponsible and selfish attitudes like this lead to the appointment of the wardens.

Quoted from BrianB

Apart from the fact that it is easy pickings in the loading and unloading bays, can someone please explain why three of them need to operate all day long in Bartholomew Street South?

It is just that, easy pickings. They have a target, which prevents common sense to prevail!

When I traded in Bartholomew St., I relied heavily on customer's being able to "stop and drop" - a short 2 -3 minutes, to bring in my trade. With a parking bay designated as "goods loading and unloading" only, which is predominently empty, a short stop to drop off or pick up goods by a private car, neither created a hazard, inconvenienced anyone, or stopped goods deliveries, and the original traffic wardens used common sense when seeing the vehicle owner was there for just a moment. Not now though, it's swoop on the motorist at every opportunity.

I know for a fact that this tactic has reduced trade in one particular shop by at least 25% - a shop that relies on goods being deposited and collected. Even their own vehicle (van) has been booked (I believe, more than once) while in the shop depositing unloaded goods!
I am just so glad that I managed to sell up when I did, because it would be much harder now to either show a profit, or find a buyer!

There's two (or is it three) pubs in this part of Bartholomew Street. What happens to the large HGVs delivering beers and other supplies if the loading bays have a couple of vehicles in them with drivers 'just popping around the corner for a couple of minutes'? Does the HGV driver drive on up the road and find a slot and walk back to the pub ..........or does he just stop in the running lane and cause chaos while he unloads?

These drivers ALSO have targets to meet (just as you assume the traffic wardens have) They have set deliveries to make in their timeslots and can't be messed about with waiting for people to dawdle back to their cars once they've finished their purchases. You're not looking at this from the view of a landlord or other business routinely needing large delivery vehicles.

And you KNOW that human nature will very soon result in short '2 or 3 minute' stop and drops becoming 12 or 13 minute stops as the driver picks up some flowers, drops off his dry cleaning, picks up some details from the estate agents - all within spitting distance of the loading bays

Then how come the pubs have been there for 100+ years, and the goods only bays just a few short years!
The pubs have survived, and in my time in Newbury, from on-street parking both sides, to double yellows both sides, and now goods only bays! There is room for both goods and short term private parking.

I am not advocating allowing people to park for any length of time, just some common sense by the CEO's.

And by the way, I don't just "assume" the wardens (or CEO's) have targets, they openly admit they have.

Quoted from spartacus

There's two (or is it three) pubs in this part of Bartholomew Street. What happens to the large HGVs delivering beers and other supplies if the loading bays have a couple of vehicles in them with drivers 'just popping around the corner for a couple of minutes'? Does the HGV driver drive on up the road and find a slot and walk back to the pub ..........or does he just stop in the running lane and cause chaos while he unloads?

These drivers ALSO have targets to meet (just as you assume the traffic wardens have) They have set deliveries to make in their timeslots and can't be messed about with waiting for people to dawdle back to their cars once they've finished their purchases. You're not looking at this from the view of a landlord or other business routinely needing large delivery vehicles.

And you KNOW that human nature will very soon result in short '2 or 3 minute' stop and drops becoming 12 or 13 minute stops as the driver picks up some flowers, drops off his dry cleaning, picks up some details from the estate agents - all within spitting distance of the loading bays

Generally drays and any other vehicle delivering heavy goods such as barrels of beer can't do their business from the loading bays anyway. They will normally park either directly outside the pub or in the yard at the back of the pub giving access to the cellars. They have always done this since year dot and from a health ands safety aspect, we wouldn't want them rolling full casks of beer or running loaded sack trucks with stacks of heavy articles, down the footpath.
The concern over oppresive parking is that there will be a knock on effect on trade and as I made the point earlier, a general fear by potential shoppers that they are a target rather than a person trying to get about their business.
I am not sure about what discretion the green men apply but I wonder about the distiction between unloading and loading a van rather than a car. Goods could be construed as a couple of boxed light fittings from the lighting centre being picked up. Would they allow that sort of discretion or do they hide round the corners as has been suggested, like wheel clampers do, and slap a ticket straight on. I think this understanding is important and requires clarification so anybody know the answer ?.

From speaking with traders that I know local to, and also those in, my previous premises, the CEO's ticket at every opportunity, and show no discretion, unlike the original police controlled traffic wardens.

I can only speak from what I have been told, as I live very local to the area, I have no need to drive and park in Bart. St. personally.

Quoted from LocalRes

From speaking with traders that I know local to, and also those in, my previous premises, the CEO's ticket at every opportunity, and show no discretion, unlike the original police controlled traffic wardens..........I can only speak from what I have been told, .

Given this, then what is the difference between loading a parcel into a van or a car. They are can both taxed as 'PLG' but of course some of the white vans are taxed as 'Goods'. Is this the difference between loading and unloading and plain parking, the taxation class on the V5 and the road fund licence.

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